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Old 10-14-2011
arunks arunks is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 133
Default Feedback on the Video and Suggestions for Wider Hand Entry, Mail slot entry..

I would like to thank you all (A Special Thank You to Coach Susanne, Tomoy and Bob)for the inputs given previously for the posts titled "Freestyle- Hand Release at the end of stroke and hand entry" and
"How to have the right hand position before hand entry? "

For the past week I had been working on the Over Switches to improve on recovery.

Attached is the video of the same.

I welcome all your comments .

Susanne, How do you feel about the elbow position in recovery and the wrist position now?

IMO, I see a lot of improvement(In fact a slight change in Action) in terms of Hand Recovery like getting the elbows wider, the improved wrist action before entry.

There are 3 things I thought I need to improve on:
1)Cleaner Hand Entry(Mail Slot Entry)
I feel after the finger enters, the forearm drops and is not entering the water properly.
2)Keeping Wider Track on entry
The entry gets very close to the centerline. I need to get it much wider. Although I do practice with the thought of wide tracks, I am not maintaining wide tracks. How to maintain the wide entry?
3)Need to work on the bent left elbow during sweet spot.

I welcome your comments on other areas where I need to improve.

Let me know your insights. I welcome your suggestions for improvement. Thanks.

Last edited by arunks : 01-09-2012 at 05:37 PM. Reason: Vid Quality
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Old 10-15-2011
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,453

It looks much better. If I were workgin with you one on one, we would do swing skate and I would help position yoru recovering arm so that the elbow is leading, forearm dragging in the water to provide feedback, palm facing back. We would just skate without entering the water so that you could imprint the swing position.

In your switches, you start off by bringign the elbow away from the midline, but instead of shifting the elbow towards the far end of the lane (in the direction of travel), it continues travling in an arc as the palm faces outwards. There is no natural "limit" to this arc and it is possible to get the arm clear in front of the head (crossing over)

This is part of why you are still not entering wide, because the swing position itself is not quite correctly imprinted. This dryland drill may help, except this video is a bit older, and the swimmer a bit over rotated...but you'll get the idea.
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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Old 10-15-2011
arunks arunks is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 133

Thank you Susanne for that important observation.I do see that the elbow is moving from the outer edge towards the centerline causing the arc and the position of the palms facing outwards.I will work on the palms facing backwards, but while drilling or swimming what is the sensory feedback to ensure that the elbow stays on the wide tracks.As you said this arc might be occurring naturally.How to ensure the elbows stay wide?Thanks.

Last edited by arunks : 10-15-2011 at 05:53 PM.
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Old 10-15-2011
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Rio, Wisconsin
Posts: 564
Default Sensory Feedback

Having followed your post and videos congrats on some remarkable improvements.

Coach Suzanne's observations and suggestions are spot on as I see it.

A couple of suggestions. The first being try to swim flatter or just off the edge. Your rotation is causing the recovering elbow to come behind the back. If you can visualize how a bulldog walks, work on having you recovery that wide. It will feel very unnatural at first. You need to work on keeping the spearing hand wide.

When doing whole stroke keep the fingers of your recovering hand in the water at all times until you spear.

Think wide, wider than you want and don't bring your elbows behind the back.

Hope this helps in some small way.

Swim Silent and Be Well
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Old 10-16-2011
arunks arunks is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 133
Default Recovery like Shinji.. (Varied recovery styles)

Hi Westy, thank you for the comments. You were saying that my elbows come behind the back during recovery, but if you observe the recovery from the back angle(Observe from 1:12 - 1:59 in the video) do you still think the elbows are behind the back.

Also I came across Shinji's video on recovery. Link is:

Regarding the elbow going very wide, what do have to say about the way the elbow moves during recovery in this video(Observe from 0:54 ).

I see that his elbow moves in a straight line from exit to entry and his elbow comes close to the centerline but the entry outside of the centerline.
This makes me wonder how recovery varies from person to person.
Although I am no way near the way Shinji swims, but I feel some of the aspects during my recovery are similar.
Also some of the questions that come to my mind are:
1)If not over rotated how to get the sensory feedback to ensure that the elbow stays on the wide tracks without swimming flatter? Because I feel if I swim flatter much of the streamline and propulsion goes off.
2)How far should the elbows move before the thought of hand spearing in for the mail slot entry come in?
3)Also in Shinji's video the hand entry is so smooth and clean? Any pointers on how to get this kind of hand entry. I feel my forearm is not entering properly . What do you think are the things I am doing wrong during hand entry and how to correct it?

Last edited by arunks : 10-21-2011 at 12:36 PM.
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