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  #41  
Old 03-12-2018
whoiscathy
 
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Thanks Inge. My deep end discomfort is sometimes still there but not nearly as bad as it was in January. The deep end in the pool where I meet my Coach is deep (4m? I can't remember...). The other pool, the one I mentioned in the Jan 24 status report is much shallower, I think around 1.80 and it still made me feel so insecure.

Now it has improved a lot. I'd say I have no discomfort whatsoever when I swim, and I love to see all that blue underneath me. But when it comes to breathing drills I do feel much, much, much more comfortable in the shallow end. I sometimes still think I could just sink to the bottom of the deep-ish pool, drown, and no one would notice my dead body on the bottom, it's so deep. Hah!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IngeA View Post
When I had problems with breathing, exactly this was the reason.
It took some time until I realised it, because I had no breathing problems before and before also I never felt uneasy in water. Not in deep water, not in currents, not in mountain rivers. I remarked that I had no breathing problems in shallow water.

It took some time to overcome this uneasiness. Many drills I did in the kiddy pool, there I felt safe and had no problems with breathing. And also I forced me to properly exhale. And I also slowed down my breathing rhythm from every other stroke to all four strokes.

And something else:
This is the normal happening when learning something new. There always comes a point where it seems that all you have learnt has gone. Keep up trying and don't be frustrated. Your skills will reappear :o)

Best regards
Inge

Last edited by whoiscathy : 03-12-2018 at 04:52 PM.
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  #42  
Old 03-13-2018
Tom65 Tom65 is offline
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So so close to getting it, there is effort involved in breathing, you'll get it.

Fins would give you speed without effort and let you explore breathing easier in the 50 metre pool. If you struggle with the length you can always roll on your back and just trundle along with a small kick to get to the end.

Keep at it, every lap gets you a tad closer.
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  #43  
Old 03-13-2018
whoiscathy
 
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Thanks Tom.

I did try to do sweet spot and also "aborted" sweet spot with fins today, so, effectively, I attempted to breathe in right skate and I managed a couple times! I only tried to my left side - for now - since my right skate is much more stable.

I then tried the same in whole stroke and got too much water in again, but the finned skate was promising enough so that I now think I'm indeed very close. There was no bananaing whatsoever today, no head lifting, unfortunately no video but my Coach said it was very good!

My moving is imminent now. I may or may not swim tomorrow for the last time in this 25m pool, then drive 1500km, and resume in 2-3 days.

In hindsight, I think that much of my breathing frustration may have come from the fact that initially, I was trying to breathe to the right (I'm right-handed etc) but the whole time I knew that my left skate wasn't solid enough, with a tendency to turn into a banana the moment I turned my head. It didn't even occur to me to try and breathe to the left instead, for weeks!... When I finally started to practice whale eye and sweet spot on the other side, I finally started to progress!
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  #44  
Old 03-13-2018
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CoachJohnnyWiden CoachJohnnyWiden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello Cathy,
Stay fair with yourself, Johnny undoubtedly did a great job, but you have to swim!

And with Johnny as your Coach you are, as we in Germany say, best saved as good as in Abraham's lap.
Thanks Werner for your kind words.

Cathyís journey is quite unique, at least for me, starting from scratch, well actually below scratch and now she swims like I use to say a Blue Goddess. Behind her success is lots of work. She is my best student ever! She has read everything worth reading about TI. We have had many many fruitful discussions and with her knowledge and curiosity she has really challenged me as a coach. I have learnt a lot from her questions. Most of the things she has done before in her life have been so easy for her; school, learning languages, photography, doing a PhD, etc. Some things more difficult than others of course, but in general she has had a life where continuous improvement is obvious and expected. The term plateau was unknown to her. Well, she has of course experienced some short plateaus, but nothing noteworthy.

Swimming however was different. All of a sudden things didnít come in place so easy as before. Swimming became a real challenge! She has now put in lots of hard work in the right direction, which has taken her where she is now. Within the four months she has worked, she estimated that she has put in roughly 130-150 hours in total, meaning that she has practiced in principle every day. The first 2 month she had five lessons, one per week. Here she couldnít take proper strokes. Then more than a month without lessons. Starting again with lessons in late January she was on the second lesson able to take proper strokes. Just in time for her 40th birthday!

Since she is to move from LuleŚ we have had some frequently short 2-3 lessons per week for 2-beat kick and honing some details. And for breathing!

What about my role then? I think it goes along with what Anders Ericsson says in his book Peak, a book about deliberate practice, ďFirst, find a good teacherĒ. A teacher that can lead the student into a well designed path for learning. A path that we here call Total Immersion. My role has been to keep her on this path and give feedback, so she could experience the four stages of learning:

1) Unconscious incompetence - you're doing it wrong, but don't realize it
2) Conscious incompetence - you're still doing it wrong, but realize it
3) Conscious competence - you're doing it right, but have to think about it all the time to do it right
4) Unconscious competence - you can do it right without constantly thinking about it

Where my main part has been 1ó> 2, and her own practice 2 ó> 3 and where continuous practice will take her all the way 3 ó> 4. Many skills are now on 3, while some, like breathing is still on 2.

Considering this and watching many of the forum memberís journey, using a coach significantly affects the process. Even so, it needs practice, practice, and practice. Cathy had and did both. Remember that this is a lifetime journey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Now it becomes clearer to me, what your very first 3-10 FPs have to be. They are even more difficult and complicated than breathing in FS, or a well tuned 2BK... (know it from my own experience)

- be patient with yourself
- be patient with yourself
- be patient with yourself
.
.
Werner, this is exactly spot on! I also think that one thing I worked a lot with is to encourage her when things didnít come out as she had expected.
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  #45  
Old 03-13-2018
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Yesterday we recorded some of
- Sync swim trials -- more practice needed!
- Cathy doing some swimming with better leading elbow imitating the TI logo and an earlier entry than before
- Me doing sweet spot drill and (very tired) Cathy copying, you can at least see a glimpse of her end-of-session sweet spot (she had better sweet spots before :)
- She has forced me to swim butterfly each lesson we have had recently. This is an example how splashy it looks like right now. Cathy the Butterfly Tyrant! Note that itís not butterfly the TI way, rather my old competitive very taxing style, which worked quite well 50 years ago!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiSfVZJAScI

One secret to Cathyís success is also to have fun in the pool. We have had tons of laughter and we really enjoy being in the water!
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  #46  
Old 03-14-2018
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Johnny, hello Cathy,

what a joy to read Johnny's post! Cathy, and now I admire you even more than before. Have been a teacher (math, physics, handcraft and psychological counsilar) most time before retirement. Loved it and liked all of my students. Several have been very well gifted, maybe same as you Cathy. But only very, very few of them where able and/or willing to face real challenges for themselfes. Giving hard work and time into things that seemed difficult even to them. (I often tried to convince them just to try that as a worthy experience to understand others...). Cathy, you're one of them!

FWIW two additions: You do like reading? Don't know why I missed my matra around breathing questions: Have a look through the looong old thread
Getting out of breath. It happened when I started with TI and did help me very much...

Johnny, enjoying the last video, and a question popped up: Did Cathy ever swim with a TT, synchronizing on different stroke parts?

Quote:
We have had tons of laughter and we really enjoy being in the water!
YES! Think it's a real secret for students and coaches. So far I've never ended a lesson without having had at least one heartly laugh together.

Cathy, go on loving the conscious incompetenz.

Best regards,
Werner
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  #47  
Old 03-14-2018
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CoachJohnnyWiden CoachJohnnyWiden is offline
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Werner, thanks for your reply. As always very encouraging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello Johnny, hello Cathy,
Johnny, enjoying the last video, and a question popped up: Did Cathy ever swim with a TT, synchronizing on different stroke parts?
What a good idea! I havenít thought of that for Cathy yet. I often do it myself and also in my Smart Speed group and I think itís a very valuable practice. She will surely have to do it!

Thanks!
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  #48  
Old 03-14-2018
whoiscathy
 
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Awww! Thank you both. However I'm nothing special; I just work my bum off for something I really want. My mother used to say I was like a bull terrier even for a child. Biting on something and never letting go of it. It also helps that I noticed many positive "side effects" from swimming that keep me going now. Earlier, sometimes, when I seemed to get stuck and felt hopeless, Johnny's encouragement kept me going :).

The main reason I've been swimming every day was that I was between two jobs, so I had a lot of time. Swimming had been on my list of things to do before I turn 40 so I decided to go all-in; after all, one doesn't have such an opportunity very often.

Regarding it being challenging, oh yes it is! We all start from different levels and with different abilities, which was perhaps the hardest part for me to deal with; to face that in this one I started with a handicap. I spent the first 3 weeks with getting water in my nose and, subsequently, "in my brain", no matter what. Then lots of coordination problems. Balance not so much, but the limbs! Too many limbs! Four!! :P Especially cross-coordination (2bk) appeared to be hopeless for several weeks. Then I got stuck in right skate for another couple weeks; Werner, would you like to hear that one? Funny story... :)))

Anyway, fast forward to March.
Today I did lots of sweet spot lengths with fins. It was interesting to see the carryover to my weak side (left skate): I tried left skate --> SS just as an after-thought after several lengths on my strong side -- and it worked! I didn't expect it to work off the bat. Typically, I struggle a bit with new things in the H2O! The only problem was that I found it exhausting because of my flutter kick being garbage, even with fins, or should we say, especially with fins (hip flexor strength?)...

Since my moving is delayed until this weekend, tomorrow I'll try to breathe in skate again, at least in right skate, this time hopefully consistently, and/or do "aborted" sweet spots. If that goes well without drinking half the pool again, I may try whole stroke with breathing.

I'm going to read the long thread you linked, Werner. Thanks!

Quote:
I often tried to convince them just to try that as a worthy experience to understand others...
This!! Couldn't have said it better myself. Although this isn't my reason in this particular case but I've done this with a handful of things before. Love your approach!

Last edited by whoiscathy : 03-14-2018 at 04:56 PM.
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  #49  
Old 03-15-2018
novaswimmer novaswimmer is offline
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Wow! Just watched the video of Cathy. How inspiring! So graceful and great position in the water. Yes, it takes a lot of work for some; more than for others. If you want it badly enough, you are willing to do what it takes to improve. And be willing to suffer the discomfort of getting water in your nose and mouth occasionally.

I wish I had the time to to swim three x per week, but don't.
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  #50  
Old 03-15-2018
whoiscathy
 
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Awww, did you just say great position? Thanks so much!! I love to get positive feedback :)) Most folks just mention the aspects to improve. I really need to hear the good stuff as well (blush).

Now in this sweet spot challenge I was getting lots of water in again. Yesterday it was getting better. Contrary to my plans, I was unable to swim today. No time because of the moving. See if I crack it tomorrow!

Quote:
Originally Posted by novaswimmer View Post
Wow! Just watched the video of Cathy. How inspiring! So graceful and great position in the water. Yes, it takes a lot of work for some; more than for others. If you want it badly enough, you are willing to do what it takes to improve. And be willing to suffer the discomfort of getting water in your nose and mouth occasionally.

I wish I had the time to to swim three x per week, but don't.
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