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  #31  
Old 01-15-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachToby View Post
Andy, does that mean the first stroke is taken on the 5th beep?
That's my understanding of Suzanne's reference. This is why I cannot get ahead with flip turn over open turn at the moment as with open turn I am SPL+3 strokes (turn -push off- underwater). I am practicing flip turns but for me it I'll have to be able to perform the full flip inside the time of one stroke before I can see any gains from it.

I find it impossible to swim the same times with 2 push off strokes rather than 1 and an extra stroke.
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  #32  
Old 01-15-2013
grandall grandall is offline
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Hey George,

4 beeps is
1. flipping
2. pushing off the wall
3. gliding
4. underwater stroke

if you are a good flipper then you will have left the wall before 2. and your glide will be longer or like an elite your turn shorter and not 4 beeps.

Andy,

I still need to improve on my flip turns especially at faster tempo's. Most of my push off's from the wall are from open turns.
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  #33  
Old 01-16-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hey Suzanne,

Re: 1.2 sec/stroke * 19SPL + 4 beeps for turns * 60 (lengths for a 1500m) = 26.8

Is the 4 'turn" beeps: 1 beep on turn/flip, plus 3 beeps off of the wall before first underwater stroke?

220/221..whatever it takes.

For non-Americans or those less than 40 years old:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX3kxAA2L4Q

The point is that it could be 3.5 or it could be 5. It's not meant to be exact, it's to help estimate times.

If I really thing about it, there is a beep coming into the wall, a beep for turning if I'm lucky I pushoff on the next beep then 3 beeps of my "normal" pushoff, so it would be 5. But some turns are faster and some pushoffs are shorter. so 220/221, whatever it takes.
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Last edited by CoachSuzanne : 01-16-2013 at 05:33 AM.
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  #34  
Old 01-16-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
220/221..whatever it takes.

For non-Americans or those less than 40 years old:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX3kxAA2L4Q

The point is that it could be 3.5 or it could be 5. It's not meant to be exact, it's to help estimate times.

If I really thing about it, there is a beep coming into the wall, a beep for turning if I'm lucky I pushoff on the next beep then 3 beeps of my "normal" pushoff, so it would be 5. But some turns are faster and some pushoffs are shorter. so 220/221, whatever it takes.
interesting that you say that (funny joke btw) as I found the easiest way to get a PR at any distance was to have precise turns, even if these vary according to stroke rate.

e.g. I can flip in one stroke down to SR 1.14 but below that I start to need 1.5 strokes, but I still prefer to do it precisely in sync with the TT as then my finish time is exactly where I planned it to be if I maintain SPL.
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  #35  
Old 01-16-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
interesting that you say that (funny joke btw) as I found the easiest way to get a PR at any distance was to have precise turns, even if these vary according to stroke rate.

e.g. I can flip in one stroke down to SR 1.14 but below that I start to need 1.5 strokes, but I still prefer to do it precisely in sync with the TT as then my finish time is exactly where I planned it to be if I maintain SPL.

I don't disagree...I set my 500 PR that way.

In the description I gave above that final beep coming into the wall would otherwise count as a stroke for a finishing lap...so I'll stand by my 4 beeps estimate as a general rule.

I just don't want anyone to take my math estimations too literally. That equation was just to estimate the finishing time. (But did anyone else notice that for a 1500m time estimate, it's the same time in minutes as a single length is in seconds? )
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  #36  
Old 01-16-2013
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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I have to ask after seeing this so many times. What in the world does PR stand for?

Sherry
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  #37  
Old 01-16-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi Sherry

PR stands for personal record. On this side of the Atlantic we usually say PB or personal best. Sometimes one hears best time but I don't think it's commonly abbreviated as BT.

Richard
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  #38  
Old 01-16-2013
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Tks Richard

Ah--so simple!
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  #39  
Old 01-16-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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I was thinking about this post today, 220/221, whatever it takes.

While most of my swim felt "slow", the best part was clearly a handful of turns that I did. Usually I'm thinking about the whole turn from 'bowing' into the wall, tuck, tumble, plant, pushoff, ritate, etc and tring to fit all that into a compact chunk of time.

Something different happeend today in which I simply focused on fitting the tumble itself into he smallest time chunk possible. it felt good...needs some practice...but it was crisp adn precise and I was off the wall before hte next beep (I think)
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  #40  
Old 01-17-2013
CoachToddE CoachToddE is offline
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Ah yes the turns. If you look at the elite swimmers they are almost all the same between the walls in capability. It only takes a poor start or a missed turn to determine the race outcome. So the same for your own swims. You can descend a set of 100s simply by attacking the turns. Say on a set of 4 x 100s: #1 swim with all turns your normal speed; #2 attack the first turn and do your usual turn on the next two; #3 attack the first two turns and normal on three and on; #4 attack all the turns. You can descend 1-2 seconds with just this alone. I noticed yesterday in my set of 300's (TT 1.00) and 200's (TT .97) I was holding 1:30-1:31 per 100 m with 18-19 spl and doing open turns (having GURD makes you do open turns after a while). On the last 3 100's (TT .95) I decided since they were short to do flip turns. I held 1:27s with 17-18 spl. Besides the slightly faster tempo the flip turns made the difference. During the first two sets the guy next to was doing flips in which he'd pull ahead on the turns and I'd catch him in the middle.

The other thing to remember or think of is to look at it like throwing a tennis ball against a wall. The harder you throw it agains the wall the faster or more energy it has coming off the wall. The same is with your flip turns. If you go in slow and lazy you will come off with little energy unless you create it yourself with the push-off (burns energy) versus attacking the turn turning tight and crisp as Suzanne described and using that energy to add to your push off.

Just a thought.
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