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  #61  
Old 08-08-2018
Danny Danny is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
I was summoned?! Hello everyone!! So a thread about one-armed swimming...excellent. I do recall that thread you mention Danny, and I'll see if I can find it. I always enjoyed reading Charles' thoughts.

I still use and enjoy 1 armed swimming for a variety of lessons, including catch as well as breathing. The bobbing can't be avoided because of the mass of the arm coming out of the water. It could be minimized with a "better" catch, but it's going to happen no mater how you do it. Fins or a strong kick could change your forward trajectory so it's lower amplitude, as would adding 1 arm in front.

For breathing I use the 1 armed stroke WITH the natural bob that occurs to help teach patience & stability, and an expectation of air appearing at your face without effort. By combining breathing to the stroking arm as well as away from the stroking arm, the drill emphasizes the beginning and the ending of the breathing opportunity. Each variation emphasizes a different part of the timing and opportunity specifically because there is a bob.

Breathing towards the stroking arm requires the chin to rotate with the shoulder with no delay and as the stroke underwater progresses and the body rotates, the air is immediately right there at the shoulder. During recovery the body quickly sinks so if you didn't get air at that moment you're going to struggle.

On the opposite side, you need to pause in skate, while the chin is rotated towards the top shoulder, which is the non stroking arm. During this pause the body needs to be stabilized and the mindpatient, and as the body bobs back up to the surface somewhat later in this cycle, magically air appears at the face.

In full stroke swimming then, one can combine that learning so that the breath starts early enough and lasts long enough to get plenty of air without struggle.

So lots of good uses in my opinion.

The last clinic I taught with Terry was last summer in Yellow Springs, OH with his sister Pegeen. It was a 1 day condensed clinic and Terry used 1 armed breathing in exactly the way I described above.

So there's no trouble with the Bob in his stroke. he knew it was there and used it for several good teaching points. if the observer doesn't see the value or know the teaching points, it doesn't mean he's drilling poorly, just that the viewer needs to keep remaining open to new learning possibilities.

For full disclosure, I am no longer a TI coach, but remain fond of all that Terry taught me, and of the TI systematic approach.
Suzanne! What a wonderful surprise! Haven't heard from you in a very long time...often wondered how you were doing. Do you ever hear anything from Charles? He too seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth (or at least off of this forum...)

Best regards,

Danny
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  #62  
Old 08-08-2018
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Hi Suzanne, hope you are being well (and still swimming :-) )

Nice detailed descriptions. Can only roughly agree with that.
Dont expects too see you back often on this forum, busy with your own coaching stuff I guess.
Still have good memories about times on the forum with you and Charles.
The times with Ian where a bit before I started swimming, and that where really the times of heated discussions between swimcoaches and different views on how to swim I believe.
Those times are gone. Cant go on about the same subjects for ever also haha.

Anyway, wish you all the best with your future plans!

Last edited by Zenturtle : 08-08-2018 at 06:00 AM.
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  #63  
Old 08-08-2018
Grant Grant is offline
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Default Thanks Suzanne

Have missed your posts and glad that life is treating you well. Wishing you a good life.
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  #64  
Old 08-09-2018
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant View Post
Have missed your posts and glad that life is treating you well. Wishing you a good life.
Thank you Grant, life is good! I can always be reached through either one of the links in my sig line.

Quote:
Hi Suzanne, hope you are being well (and still swimming :-) )

Nice detailed descriptions. Can only roughly agree with that.
Dont expects too see you back often on this forum, busy with your own coaching stuff I guess.
Still have good memories about times on the forum with you and Charles.
The times with Ian where a bit before I started swimming, and that where really the times of heated discussions between swimcoaches and different views on how to swim I believe.
Those times are gone. Cant go on about the same subjects for ever also haha.

Anyway, wish you all the best with your future plans!
Yes those were great times! I believe Charles has moved away from swimming and triathlon and is now training dogs, which ironically I am as well! (just 1 dog... instagram @mydailyfig )

I always appreciate your vast library of links to swim videos, and your stirring conversation...makes me think which is good.

Quote:
Suzanne! What a wonderful surprise! Haven't heard from you in a very long time...often wondered how you were doing. Do you ever hear anything from Charles? He too seems to have disappeared off the face of the earth (or at least off of this forum...)

Best regards,

Danny
Thanks Danny, life always seems to get busier and less time for forum stuff. I was in contact with Charles a few months ago and he is now doing dog training! Don't see him post much on facebook but he seems happy.

Thanks, nice hearing from all of you
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  #65  
Old 08-09-2018
CoachJamesEwart CoachJamesEwart is offline
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[quote=Mushroomfloat;66257]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachJamesEwart View Post

Connection not coupling (coupling is shoulder driven or straight arm)
I got told by Coach Dougal
Well Coach Dougal got that wrong sorry.

Coupling motions are created through combining forces of rotation, catch and kick. It's pretty basic physics. Think "tug of war". Pull together. Timing is everything. Straight arm is irrelevant. Wow this forum is rife with disinformation about TI. Have any of you actually ever attended a workshop or TI coaching session?
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  #66  
Old 08-09-2018
CoachJamesEwart CoachJamesEwart is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushroomfloat View Post
Can't see how you can have a loose and relaxed recovery arm in a coupled stroke but there you go.
Book a session with a TI Coach and find out how!
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  #67  
Old 08-09-2018
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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[quote=CoachJamesEwart;66286]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushroomfloat View Post

Well Coach Dougal got that wrong sorry.

Coupling motions are created through combining forces of rotation, catch and kick. It's pretty basic physics. Think "tug of war". Pull together. Timing is everything. Straight arm is irrelevant. Wow this forum is rife with disinformation about TI. Have any of you actually ever attended a workshop or TI coaching session?
I base my opininon on the youtube videos I see from TI swimmers.
I agree with your discription of right timing, but dont see it in all those swimmers.
I also agree that the recovering shoulder and arm dont need to be tightly connected to have benefit from it.
Its more how you throw that weight around with the rest of your body and catch the weight again when it falls in the water.
Iits mostle the impuls from kick and hip nudge to start the acceleration of furher upwards bodyparts which gives an impression like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrX2yTGJ6N0

in the sense that there is a motion train running from rear to front.Its all connected with a small timeshift.

TI swimmers I see often swim like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LnbyjOyEQ8
shift right/shift left/shift right/shift left. Because of the emphasis on snappy shifts and turning hips and shoulders as one unit.

Dont take these examples too literally, its an impression how the style comes accross often.
I am not tallking about Shinji here.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 08-09-2018 at 09:21 PM.
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  #68  
Old 08-09-2018
CoachStuartMcDougal's Avatar
CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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[quote=CoachJamesEwart;66286]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushroomfloat View Post

Well Coach Dougal got that wrong sorry.

Coupling motions are created through combining forces of rotation, catch and kick. It's pretty basic physics. Think "tug of war". Pull together. Timing is everything. Straight arm is irrelevant. Wow this forum is rife with disinformation about TI. Have any of you actually ever attended a workshop or TI coaching session?
Where did this come from? Shroom talking about me again and taking out of context, "Coach Dougal"? I recall the coupling vs connection language in a post somewhere but "coupling" was in the context of windmill stroke, shoulders are coupled together. And "connection" each arm moves independently *connected* through the core in whole body movement.

Btw, MF. What do we know about you, your swim background, where you from (Perth?), coaching experience, favorite places you swim, etc. Remaining anonymous given the amount of time you spend daily on the TI forum doesn't help your credibility.

Stu
mindbodyandswim.com
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  #69  
Old 08-09-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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[quote=CoachStuartMcDougal;66289]
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachJamesEwart View Post

Where did this come from? Shroom talking about me again and taking out of context, "Coach Dougal"? I recall the coupling vs connection language in a post somewhere but "coupling" was in the context of windmill stroke, shoulders are coupled together. And "connection" each arm moves independently *connected* through the core in whole body movement.

Btw, MF. What do we know about you, your swim background, where you from (Perth?), coaching experience, favorite places you swim, etc. Remaining anonymous given the amount of time you spend daily on the TI forum doesn't help your credibility.

Stu
mindbodyandswim.com
Yes i agree
I'm making the point that Coupling usually refers to coupling the arms together through the upper back
ie shoulder driven / kayak or windmill straight arm


I'am based in hampshire England i swim at Bitterne leisure centre & The Quays most week nights.

I'm not a coach, just interested in swimming and like to study, had some great insights here.
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  #70  
Old 08-09-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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I'm certainly not an SS troll! from Perth! lol

I believe in TI and the concepts, i was reading a thread from 2006 on US masters forum earlier

KeizanSwimmer - Terry?

some real insights about antagonist v agonist muscles working oposite each other (turning on & off)

and the speed of the recovery arm being a key etc
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