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  #1  
Old 07-02-2018
JenMoore
 
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Default Sinking in Whale Eye

When I was doing the Skate lesson, I felt like I was doing OK, staying pretty balanced. And the Nod lesson seemed to go OK after getting used to rotating my head laterally instead of lifting it. But today, I started working on Whale Eye and found that my first head rotation goes OK, but when I try to rotate my head next time around, my head is too far underwater for one of my goggles to peep out.

After breaking it down into small movements, I realized my torso/hips are sinking and bringing everything else with it. I'm trying not to overkick to compensate, but that's what I instinctively want to do. I've gone back and focused on keeping my forward arm low and relaxed, keeping my core engaged and keeping my head down in a level, relaxed position, eyes down.

Any thoughts on this? After reading another forum, I'm wondering if I'm letting my breath out too quickly and losing some buoyancy.
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  #2  
Old 07-02-2018
JenMoore
 
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I meant to mention that I'm JenMoore's husband, Mitch.
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JenMoore View Post
When I was doing the Skate lesson, I felt like I was doing OK, staying pretty balanced. And the Nod lesson seemed to go OK after getting used to rotating my head laterally instead of lifting it. But today, I started working on Whale Eye and found that my first head rotation goes OK, but when I try to rotate my head next time around, my head is too far underwater for one of my goggles to peep out.

After breaking it down into small movements, I realized my torso/hips are sinking and bringing everything else with it. I'm trying not to overkick to compensate, but that's what I instinctively want to do. I've gone back and focused on keeping my forward arm low and relaxed, keeping my core engaged and keeping my head down in a level, relaxed position, eyes down.

Any thoughts on this? After reading another forum, I'm wondering if I'm letting my breath out too quickly and losing some buoyancy.
I've said this before, if you spear too low it will pull you down deeper and you'll struggle to reach air.
If you watch all top swimmers the breathing spear goes higher than a regular spear this is to generate lift.
You must maintain forward momentum too.

How much are you rotating? 80/90 degs will sink you like a stone.
35/45 deg for fast swimming
45/60 deg max for relaxed distance swimming
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  #4  
Old 07-03-2018
Tom65 Tom65 is offline
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Don't know if you're allowed to wear fins for Whale Eye, but they'd make it easy.
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  #5  
Old 07-03-2018
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Hi Jen,

There could be a combination of things causing the imbalance, but given your description, and if you are executing a good nod in alignment, it’s probably tension in neck; not from lifting head but actually pressing face down from the neck, very common issue when learning to breathe in alignment. To feel a true neutral posture, in torpedo with light flutter, press face down, hold, then release all tension in neck and let head pop up to the surface. This is your neutral posture, no neck (and shoulder) tension. Also do this in freestyle, push off the wall, take 2 or 3 strokes pressing face down, then release all tension in the neck - feel head pop up and shoulders become light, no tension in the chest.

Second, your spearing arm could be scooping toward the surface or laying flat at entry - causing hips to sink. Spear early/deep more so when rolling to breathe or whale-eye.

Third - you could still be tilting head on whale-eye, breaking posture, i.e. forehead is higher than chin even though you’re getting only one goggle out of the water. The head tilts, spine bends and hips drop. Focus on getting the chin higher than your eyes at ‘whale-eye’.

Lastly - buoyancy. Emptying your lungs too quickly, hips drop, body drops a couple inches, rolling to breathe you find nothing but water. Sounds like you saw Coach Mandy’s video in the blog “Breathing, it’s Overated” posted in the ‘Breathing Confusion’ thread. Just be sure to empty the bulk of your air when rolling to breathe, and NOT immediately after inhaling air.

As noted in the other post, work on the patience to allow air to find you, don’t chase it with the head. Maintaining posture/alignment is priority to maintain balance - always start there first.

When everything falls into place and you suddenly get that ‘easy breath’ you will realize all those added terrestrial movements and tension were making breathing so complicated and not the process helping you remove those impulses.

Keep up the good work and continued patience!

Stu
MindBodyAndSwim.com

Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 07-03-2018 at 10:18 PM. Reason: fix url
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  #6  
Old 07-04-2018
JenMoore
 
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I'm trying to do these lessons without assistance from swim aids.
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  #7  
Old 07-04-2018
JenMoore
 
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Stu, thanks for the feedback. I am probably doing one or more of those things you mentioned. I've thought my head is relaxed and level, but I could be lifting without realizing it. All good tips that I'll work on. Don't feel like I can really proceed until I get this body posture thing straight.
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  #8  
Old 07-05-2018
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Hi Jen,

Posture like balance will improve over time - do let that stop you from moving forward or trying something new to improve. Doing movements intentionally wrong and then correcting (i.e. pushing face down, then then releasing tension in neck; look forward then drop head into neutral posture, etc) builds a personal neural library and awareness. Don’t be afraid to “surrender to failure” since that’s where you will learn the most.

Enjoy the journey!

Stu
MindBodyAndSwim.com
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  #9  
Old 07-05-2018
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
To feel a true neutral posture, in torpedo with light flutter, press face down, hold, then release all tension in neck and let head pop up to the surface. This is your neutral posture, no neck (and shoulder) tension. Also do this in freestyle, push off the wall, take 2 or 3 strokes pressing face down, then release all tension in the neck - feel head pop up and shoulders become light, no tension in the chest.
I do this all the time (I mean, pretty much before each repeat, or at the start of each set) to check my head position and relaxation: push my face into the water (looking straight down), hold it there for a couple of seconds, and then release to allow the head to float free. Done correctly, it feels like your head bounces up to the surface when you release the muscles in your neck.

After it bounces up, you can really FEEL your head floating on the surface, completely supported by the water. I think learning to be aware of this is one of the single best things you can do to learn balance and posture for swimming.
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  #10  
Old 07-06-2018
JenMoore
 
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Thanks, Tom.
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