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  #11  
Old 08-17-2009
ayesr ayesr is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 92
ayesr
Default So sorry Nicodemus for all the confusion...

My apologies to Nicodemus, Atreides...and to others in the forum for any confusion my inputs may have caused....

No offense taken, by the way...Nicodemus...

I have no TI training...no such luck nor opportunity...(here in Manila)

I have learned mostly from various inputs in the various forum, the materials in the Total Swim E-zine and youtube posted videos...

I hope that my lack of “...official TI status...” does not disqualify me from participating in the future?

Hereunder are my clarifications on Nicodemus' questions”

The 2BK using a cross-kick variety - the one with a one-foot driver
By definition the 2BK has one-foot (per stroke) driver. It has 2 beats per stroke cycle of 2 strokes - hence 1 kick per stroke.

AYESR. ONE KICK OF THE DRIVING FOOT, SAY THE RIGHT FOOT, IS ONE LEFT HAND SPEAR. CYCLING TO THE OTHER SIDE: ANOTHER FOOT DRIVE BY THE LEFT FOOT, IS ANOTHER RIGHT HAND SPEAR ENTRY.

o kicks off-the-wall, then initiates the 2BK, say, foot driver is right foot (left foot just drafts along)
Personally I don't kick with my first pull after push-off the wall. Maybe I should?
What I am more confused about is that everyone I know pushes off with both hands extended. This does not fit with some of the details below (there would be no marionette spearing hand).
So maybe the following steps actually describe later stroke, not the first one? I am going to assume this is true, because you describe the subsequent stroke in identical (mirror-image) terms

AYESR. I TOO, KICK OFF THE WALL WITH BOTH HANDS EXTENDED (SUPERMAN GLIDE).

o corkscrew affect turns the hip to the left,
"To the left" is ambiguous. Do you mean left hip goes up or down. This is crucial. If you kick with right foot then left hip goes down.

AYESR. AS I KICK WITH THE RIGHT FOOT DRIVER, THE RIGHT HIP GOES DOWN (THE HIP ON THE SAME SIDE AS THE FOOT DRIVER), THE LEFT HIP GOES UP.

o causes a rotation that clears the left shoulder off the water surface,
What does this mean? It sounds to me like a description of the shoulder coming up. But since your left hip goes down, so must your left shoulder, following the left spearing arm into the water.

AYESR. AS THE LEFT HIP GOES UP, (THE LEFT SHOULDER FOLLOWS)

o allows a graceful marionette spearing left hand to enter the water (all the while the propulsion caused by the 2BK moves the body forward),
The shoulder follows/drives the spearing arm. And it is marionnette as it recovers, not as it spears
And don't you think the right arm has something to do with the propulsion ???

AYESR. THE MARIONETTE ARM (MY OWN UNDERSTANDING OF THIS MIND PICTURE) IS THE LOOSE LOOKING SWINGING MOVEMENT OF THE RECOVERING UPPER & LOWER ARM – AS IT MOVES FROM THE POINT OF EXIT TO THE POINT OF ENTERING THE WATER SURFACE – WITH A SPEARING FORM & MOTION. IN THIS EXAMPLE, THE HAND DOING THIS MOTION IS THE LEFT HAND.

o left hand may pull depending on the speed one wants
NO!. The right arm pulls as left spears. You don't spear and pull with the same arm in a single stroke!!!

AYESR. SORRY ABOUT THE CONFUSION. I AGREE, YOU CAN'T SPEAR AND PULL IN WITH THE SAME HAND.

THE SPEARING HAND AS IT ENTERS THE WATER, WHEN MY STROKE IS A BIT FAST, DOES NOT REMAIN AT ANCHOR LONG BUT IS BROUGHT TO IMMEDIATELY DO THE PULL. AT CERTAIN HIGHER SPEEDS, I FEEL THE NEED TO INITIATE THE LEFT HAND PULL AND NOT REMAIN AT ANCHOR FOR LONG.

MY RIGHT HAND AT THIS POINT IS ALREADY DONE WITH THE PUSH AND ABOUT TO EXIT.

o as spearing left hand enters the water, right hand at "anchor" at this time slightly past, near or about the head, as it is about to near the point to recover (near the hips or slightly past the hips, depending on the speed)
This makes no sense at all. Get a book, DVD or workshop to findout where (and WHEN) the right hand anchor point is.

AYESR. HERE AM DESCRIBING A MOVEMENT AT SLOW SPEED.

THE LEFT HAND SPEARS TO ANCHOR WHILE THE RIGHT FROM ITS PREVIOUSLY ANCHORING POSITION IS NOW MOVING TO THE PULL/PUSH PHASE AND TOWARDS THE RECOVERY (TO EXIT SOMEWHERE NEAR THE HIP).

And the process is repeated by the left-foot driver doing the foot-flick to initiate the corkscrew effect to rotate the hips to the right, to clear the right shoulder off the water for the right spearing hand to enter the water.

AYESR. ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE CYCLE, THE LEFT HIP NOW GOES DOWN (AS A RESULT OF THE LEFT FOOT DRIVE), THE RIGHT SHOULDER GOES UP AND THE RIGHT HAND NOW SWINGS FROM THE BACK TO THE FRONT TO DO THE SPEAR ENTRY.

o the 2BK I think increases (not sure about the # of beats)
The number of beats is 2

AYESR. SORRY AGAIN. WHAT I MEANT HERE IS THAT AS YOU INCREASE SPEED THE BEATS MAY INCREASE FROM 2BK TO SOMETHING MORE LIKE MAYBE A 6BK.

Thanks for bearing with me...and again my apologies...

End.

Last edited by ayesr : 08-17-2009 at 05:13 AM.
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  #12  
Old 08-17-2009
Nicodemus Nicodemus is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 50
Nicodemus
Default

Hello again Ayesr

Thanks for taking my comments in the positive spirit they were meant.

First, I seriously recommend you invest in a TI freestyle DVD. You are really going to struggle otherwise.

This has no doubt been the cause of the major misunderstanding you have made.
See my comments below.
Read my post above describing my own stroke, especially the hips.
Go and look at the YouTube examples much more carefully.
And ... buy the DVD!

Good luck.




The 2BK using a cross-kick variety - the one with a one-foot driver
By definition the 2BK has one-foot (per stroke) driver. It has 2 beats per stroke cycle of 2 strokes - hence 1 kick per stroke.

AYESR. ONE KICK OF THE DRIVING FOOT, SAY THE RIGHT FOOT, IS ONE LEFT HAND SPEAR. CYCLING TO THE OTHER SIDE: ANOTHER FOOT DRIVE BY THE LEFT FOOT, IS ANOTHER RIGHT HAND SPEAR ENTRY.
ok


o kicks off-the-wall, then initiates the 2BK, say, foot driver is right foot (left foot just drafts along)
Personally I don't kick with my first pull after push-off the wall. Maybe I should?
What I am more confused about is that everyone I know pushes off with both hands extended. This does not fit with some of the details below (there would be no marionette spearing hand).
So maybe the following steps actually describe later stroke, not the first one? I am going to assume this is true, because you describe the subsequent stroke in identical (mirror-image) terms

AYESR. I TOO, KICK OFF THE WALL WITH BOTH HANDS EXTENDED (SUPERMAN GLIDE).
ok

o corkscrew affect turns the hip to the left,
"To the left" is ambiguous. Do you mean left hip goes up or down. This is crucial. If you kick with right foot then left hip goes down.

AYESR. AS I KICK WITH THE RIGHT FOOT DRIVER, THE RIGHT HIP GOES DOWN (THE HIP ON THE SAME SIDE AS THE FOOT DRIVER), THE LEFT HIP GOES UP.

NO! You are rotating your hips the opposite direction to what you should be doing.
The physics is -
Right foot kicks down & meets water resistence which gives grip.
This facilitates the rotation of the right hip UP & left hip DOWN.


o causes a rotation that clears the left shoulder off the water surface,
What does this mean? It sounds to me like a description of the shoulder coming up. But since your left hip goes down, so must your left shoulder, following the left spearing arm into the water.

AYESR. AS THE LEFT HIP GOES UP, (THE LEFT SHOULDER FOLLOWS)
NO -The left hip & shoulder are already up from the previous stroke
They both go DOWN as the spearing arm goes forward and DOWN.
How can you Spear if your shoulder and hip are moving in the opposite direction to your hand??? Try punching a bag with your right shoulder going backwards as your right fist goes forward - it is impossible.





o allows a graceful marionette spearing left hand to enter the water (all the while the propulsion caused by the 2BK moves the body forward),
The shoulder follows/drives the spearing arm. And it is marionnette as it recovers, not as it spears
And don't you think the right arm has something to do with the propulsion ???

AYESR. THE MARIONETTE ARM (MY OWN UNDERSTANDING OF THIS MIND PICTURE) IS THE LOOSE LOOKING SWINGING MOVEMENT OF THE RECOVERING UPPER & LOWER ARM – AS IT MOVES FROM THE POINT OF EXIT TO THE POINT OF ENTERING THE WATER SURFACE – WITH A SPEARING FORM & MOTION. IN THIS EXAMPLE, THE HAND DOING THIS MOTION IS THE LEFT HAND.

Agreed

o left hand may pull depending on the speed one wants
NO!. The right arm pulls as left spears. You don't spear and pull with the same arm in a single stroke!!!

AYESR. SORRY ABOUT THE CONFUSION. I AGREE, YOU CAN'T SPEAR AND PULL IN WITH THE SAME HAND.
ok

THE SPEARING HAND AS IT ENTERS THE WATER, WHEN MY STROKE IS A BIT FAST, DOES NOT REMAIN AT ANCHOR LONG BUT IS BROUGHT TO IMMEDIATELY DO THE PULL. AT CERTAIN HIGHER SPEEDS, I FEEL THE NEED TO INITIATE THE LEFT HAND PULL AND NOT REMAIN AT ANCHOR FOR LONG.

MY RIGHT HAND AT THIS POINT IS ALREADY DONE WITH THE PUSH AND ABOUT TO EXIT.
This is a consequence of the problem above. Sort that out then everything else will make more sense



o as spearing left hand enters the water, right hand at "anchor" at this time slightly past, near or about the head, as it is about to near the point to recover (near the hips or slightly past the hips, depending on the speed)
This makes no sense at all. Get a book, DVD or workshop to findout where (and WHEN) the right hand anchor point is.

AYESR. HERE AM DESCRIBING A MOVEMENT AT SLOW SPEED.

THE LEFT HAND SPEARS TO ANCHOR WHILE THE RIGHT FROM ITS PREVIOUSLY ANCHORING POSITION IS NOW MOVING TO THE PULL/PUSH PHASE AND TOWARDS THE RECOVERY (TO EXIT SOMEWHERE NEAR THE HIP).


You don't understand what Anchor means because you are Spearing wrong.

And the process is repeated by the left-foot driver doing the foot-flick to initiate the corkscrew effect to rotate the hips to the right, to clear the right shoulder off the water for the right spearing hand to enter the water.

AYESR. ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE CYCLE, THE LEFT HIP NOW GOES DOWN (AS A RESULT OF THE LEFT FOOT DRIVE), THE RIGHT SHOULDER GOES UP AND THE RIGHT HAND NOW SWINGS FROM THE BACK TO THE FRONT TO DO THE SPEAR ENTRY.

o the 2BK I think increases (not sure about the # of beats)
The number of beats is 2

AYESR. SORRY AGAIN. WHAT I MEANT HERE IS THAT AS YOU INCREASE SPEED THE BEATS MAY INCREASE FROM 2BK TO SOMETHING MORE LIKE MAYBE A 6BK.
2BK or 6BK is a conscious decision.


So basically you are rotating hips the wrong direction. This means you get no power in your stroke. This has led you to misunderstand other details and also invent some other ideas to try to compensate. Fix the hip rotation.

And did I say... buy the DVD????
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