Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 07-26-2012
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 787
Default different rotation hips and shoulders?

Good findings, GregJS, what experience shows is that often you don't find obvious flaws in your stroke without watching a video of yourself. What we do wrong often - as you describe - feels right and is very difficult to detect without visual input from outside.
As for the roll like a log even when it is understood I think it gets challenged by (among other stuff probably) a lack of core strength, a lack of balance and a bad breathing stroke. To get enough core strength and balance - it simply takes time :-( , doing drills like core balance and skating speeds up the process. In the case of WinnAngela as those exceptionally clear videos show her balance is very good generally but she starts to bend when she is breathing but not always, I guess only when she needs air desperately.
The other thing I noticed with WinnAngela in her video is that she twists in the core, slightly, and only when starting a stroke on the right side. You can see in the video from July 18th at 0:06 and 0:08 when she is about to spear with her right arm that her hips still rotate to the left while her shoulders and upper body already start to rotate to the right (she is not doing it when starting a stroke on the left side). But I think you can see that only when watching the video in slow motion or frame by frame. So without changing the distance between pelvis and ribcage there is a twist - another thing to look for.

And, talking about a twist, since that rolling like a log is a swimming mantra since many years in a workshop with Shinji it was obviously said that TI now teaches a body roll where hips and shoulders rotate differently. That - I assume - probably means that the shoulders rotate more than the hips once the rotation has been initiated. I can't see that in the 'TI ultimate demo' video, there is a roll like a log rotation in both Terry and Shinji.
This 'new' style of rotation was mentioned by Ladyfish in this thread and this post and part of what she said is this:
Originally Posted by Ladyfish View Post
Shinji explained that this is one of the ways in which TI has evolved. The "log roll" rotation with stacked shoulders in skating is outdated. Then it was all about rotating "just enough" to get the recovery shoulder out of the water. Now they are talking about shoulder and hip separation. To get the latest version of TI you need to have access to a TI coach and relatively few followers have that luxury. ...
Since then I am waiting for some 'official' TI information for us being abandoned out there without TI coach.

Maybe Doc Sue knows something about it? If not, it can not be TI mainstream ... (yet)...

Hang on in there...
Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2012
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Southwest Florida
Posts: 671
Default Regarding engaging the core:

I'm not sure of explanations on how to engage core--can't visualize. Searched youtube and found one video of a person rotating from his back, then to side, the to stomach, and then again on back.

If one can do this fairly easily, does that demonstrate that one is engaging the core?

Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012
GregJS GregJS is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 9

Yes, haschu33, the couple times I've seen myself on video, what I thought I was doing and what I was actually doing were shockingly different! That was very helpful to see.

Still, to go back to what I was saying before, I would doubt very much that the TINY "internal" adjustment to my pelvis that seems to make all the difference in my balance, body position, and breathing would be visible on a video. Video is great for the more obvious aspects of the stroke, but this still leaves the subtleties.

This is also not about building up "core strength," exactly. I could have done core building exercises galore - and in fact I have done them - and still not ever realize that this basic, underlying misalignment is there. So really, core strength and body alignment are two separate - although obviously closely related - issues.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that someone needs to come up with an "answer" to what I am saying. I'm just thinking out loud that it might be very helpful for people like me - who did not even know that there were misalignments affecting my ability to practice all the "official" aspects of TI - if it was clearly emphasized that, in addition to all the aspects that can be taught, there might be old body habits that have been rendered "invisible" through habituation that will need to be resolved before one will be able to put the specific TI skills into practice. At least then people will look for these misalignments, rather than remaining oblivious to them.

If people with these sorts of issues don't know they may be affected by them, they might get frustrated with lack of progress and never realize they were just one tiny little pelvis tilt away from making all those months or years of drills click in to place. That would be a shame.
Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,453

Originally Posted by jenson1a View Post
I'm not sure of explanations on how to engage core--can't visualize. Searched youtube and found one video of a person rotating from his back, then to side, the to stomach, and then again on back.

If one can do this fairly easily, does that demonstrate that one is engaging the core?

That video is kind of silly if I recall. The subject is very sloppy in his/her movements and appears to throw themselves around. I wouldn't aspire for anyone to do that exact activity.

There is a p90x exercise sequence (where I first saw it) called "banana to boat" where you roll from stomach to back to stomach again with arms overhead keeping feet & arms off the floor the whole time.
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

Reply With Quote
Old 06-19-2016
Posts: n/a

I know what's your problem you are exhaling shallowly wich means that you don't use your core muscles during your glide phase . So try to exhale fully until you empty your lungs entirely from air .
Reply With Quote

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:41 AM.

Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.