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  #1  
Old 07-27-2009
techie techie is offline
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techie
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Special thanks to atreides, Alex, Eric, Pat, and Taft. A nice bunch of people on this board.

I really appreciate the advice you gave me, and I've been working on it. The video below is the result, and I hope it shows improvement over the older clips.

http://vimeo.com/5785213

One thing I noticed was that wider tracks cut down on rotation, though I think Eric said I was using too much anyway. And the "wideness" feels so exaggerated, while video shows it to just be enough to keep from crossing the centerline, wow. I also believe I need to work on the pull and recovery...and is the spearing angle correct?

Really hoping to sign up for a class in the near future to refine and put it all together. The book only does so much.
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  #2  
Old 07-27-2009
atreides atreides is offline
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I think that you have made great progress on your wide tracks. I don't think that you are under rotating so that is good. Your catch isn't that far away. I learned a new term the other day. So I'll use it here. You need to "anchor" your catch more. That is bring your forearm to vertical before you begin your pull. Doing that almost guarantees high elbows. I would have like see some of the action above the water but this looked pretty good to me. What kind of distances can you swim? Are you at the swim until you get bored stage yet?
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  #3  
Old 07-27-2009
techie techie is offline
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Thanks, um, Paul(?)

not understanding you. "Bring your forearm to vertical". Can you describe that another way, or walk me through it?

What are you looking for that would show in an above water view? I could ask someone to record again.

Ironically, before wide tracks, I was going farther. This way uses some muscles I haven't worked out. I could cross the lake and back (half mile) without being winded. Flip turns in pool wear me out after a while, but on a good day in good form I could keep going for quite a while.
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  #4  
Old 07-28-2009
atreides atreides is offline
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When you pull, you position your forearm and hand about half or three quarters way vertical and then you pull through. This results in you getting some but not all of the results of EVF. As you pull through your elbow drops until about half way through you are mostly straight arm. EVF requires that you flip your elbow down at the very beginning so that your hand an forearm are perpendicular with your now horizontal upper arm. That flip is supposed to "catch" the water and provide some propulsion forward. Just after you perform the catch, you have now provided an anchor (picture your upper arm as a platform and your vertical forearm and hand as the "hanging" anchor) from which your core rotation can drive your body forward. The theory is that you're not actually "pulling" water (except on the catch) , but providing a stationary point in the water for you to lever forward on.

Critcal to maintaining the anchor is that the upper arm stay as close to horizontal while the forearm and hand stay vertical as long as possible throughout the stroke. That's the meaning of "high" elbow. You can look up "high elbow catch" or "elevated vertical form(EVF)" on the web. There a couple of good youtubes that describe the technique. Now just because I can sort of talk about the technique doesn't mean that I execute it that well. I still have a tendency to actively "pull" as opposed to letting my core drive me through the anchor which may be why I still get fatigued. But after hearing Natalie Coughlin talk about anchoring and letting my core drive me through, I'm going to give that a shot next time I'm in the pool.
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  #5  
Old 07-29-2009
Taft Taft is offline
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I'm a TI beginner also, which means I should not be giving advice to other swimmers...but...work on hitting your target with your hand relaxed, fingers down, palm facing you. In the video your hands look cupped which means tension. Also, remember you want your wrist lower than your elbow.

It appears to me that you are spearing your hands in an upward motion.

Watch this video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rddHP...eature=related

And my favorite TI swimmer...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJo61...eature=related

Last edited by Taft : 07-29-2009 at 03:07 AM.
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  #6  
Old 07-29-2009
edlevin edlevin is offline
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As with others, a disclaimer, I'm a novice, but have had a good deal of TI training.

You certainly show a lot of improvement. I agree that your catch is not patient enough.

I found this two pause overswitch progression to be useful.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPab_0O2GXM

You should hold your arm out in front motionless, if only for a moment, before setting your catch. A TI coach impressed on me that when you're recovering arm has reached full extension, your pull should not be finished.

Seems to me you need to sloowwww ... things ... down. You must be in terrific aerobic shape. Your stroke rate, as far as I can tell, is 1 per second - way too fast for learning. Is that your normal speed? For learning purposes you need to go much slower.

Good Luck
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  #7  
Old 07-29-2009
techie techie is offline
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Atreides: thanks, a lot to digest.

Taft: yes, those vids help. It is frustrating to think you are moving a certain way in the water just to have the video show otherwise. I really need to scrape up the money to get coaching, the immediate correction would be immensely helpful.

edlevin: Ha! I'm an asthmatic mess. I think the speed was due to open water with no references. I go slower in the pool. Looks like concentrating on form caused me to forget to pace properly. Must remember to reach, pause, pull.

To anyone still listening: Does anyone mind my feedback requests? I'd like to post again after practicing these corrections. I don't want to annoy anyone, or take advantage, though one member thanked me when your advice helped him in my thread. Until I can manage classes, this is the best help around.
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  #8  
Old 08-05-2009
Taft Taft is offline
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edlevin...great youtube demo. Thanks so much for linking it. :-)
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  #9  
Old 08-05-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Perhaps the entry is too close to the head leading to the arcing motion of the spearing arm?
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  #10  
Old 08-05-2009
terry terry is offline
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Ed's advice to slow your stroke is invaluable and essential. I've done several clinics with the Tempo Trainer and discovered it's the simplest and quickest way to significantly increase efficiency.
The clinic attendees have mostly been people with no TI experience. We start by having all swim a couple 25s to establish a "baseline" stroke count. The non-TI swimmers usually average 21-25 in a 25-yard pool.
After a couple focal point lengths and one simple drill (index-finger swimming) -- mainly to get them accustomed to a specific focus -- I give them TTs and instruct them to set to 1.30. Within a few minutes, and 200 or fewer yards, the group is swimming 20% more efficiently. It's like voodoo to watch.

So I'd strongly recommend the TT as a worthy investment.

Second note is to clarify how much rotation to aim for. Rather than think about swimming on your side, think about swimming just off your stomach.

You can experiment with gaining more control and subtlety by using a "hip nudge" rather than a hip drive. This -- along with wide tracks -- should also result in a sense of having your feet and legs more streamlined, and help control leg-splaying.
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