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  #1  
Old 03-02-2011
chaceakers chaceakers is offline
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Default body dolphin versus frog kick (whip)

I have been swimming the breast and butterfly for a few months now and I noticed that my breaststroke is faster with the dolphin than the frog kick. I feel like I get propulsion from my legs moving down and moving up. The frog kick just seems to create drag.

Is one kick better than the other? Is it legal to use the dolphin in competition?

I appreciate any feedback.

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 03-02-2011
Grant Grant is offline
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In Masters swim meets you can use either dolphin or whip kicks in the Fly races, but only the whip in the Breast races.

may we swim with ease at the speeds we choose.
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  #3  
Old 03-03-2011
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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If you don't intend to swim breaststroke in competition then breast arms and fly legs is a very agreeable way to swim. In my own case, I'm faster with the frog kick but then I've been a breaststroker for more than sixty years and have only recently learned the dolphin kick. I'm pretty slow with both, actually.

It's a good idea to make your whip kick as similar to the dolphin kick as possible without making it illegal, but of course if you're just doing it for fun it doesn't matter at all which kick you use.
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  #4  
Old 06-07-2011
solothesailor solothesailor is offline
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Watching the video clip as referred to by terry in another thread on Breaststroke breathing:
Quote:
Originally Posted by terry View Post
. . .
Watch this highly revealing underwater video of Kitajima. Notice . . .
there was a brief information bubble stating that dolphin kicks have now been allowed since/after the 2004 Olympics. is that correct or was I misinterpreting something?

Is the dolphin kick the most efficient or powerful underwater kick (as I recollect from John Konrad's teaching video on tumble turns)? Shouldn't this kick be used more in swimming (apart from during turns)? I haven't come across it much or hardly at all in all TI material I've looked at, quite obsessively, so far. Maybe it is more demanding energy-wise?

I only started Breaststroke a few weeks ago, as in for the first time in my life. My instructor said I was a natural Breaststroker; that totally amazed me. When I read here that most people couldn't stand with feet at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, that stunned me too as it's easy for me to very nearly do that. This stroke in competition has always looked high-energy-cost and non-streamlined to me hence my disinterest. I've become more interested recently as my aim has been to be able to swim/float/do-anything towards survival (and/or enjoyment as the case may be) at sea -or, rather, in any water. Sounds like I should seriously learn Breaststroke?

Solo Thesailor
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  #5  
Old 06-07-2011
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solothesailor View Post
Watching the video clip as referred to by terry in another thread on Breaststroke breathing:


there was a brief information bubble stating that dolphin kicks have now been allowed since/after the 2004 Olympics. is that correct or was I misinterpreting something?

Is the dolphin kick the most efficient or powerful underwater kick (as I recollect from John Konrad's teaching video on tumble turns)? Shouldn't this kick be used more in swimming (apart from during turns)? I haven't come across it much or hardly at all in all TI material I've looked at, quite obsessively, so far. Maybe it is more demanding energy-wise?

I only started Breaststroke a few weeks ago, as in for the first time in my life. My instructor said I was a natural Breaststroker; that totally amazed me. When I read here that most people couldn't stand with feet at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, that stunned me too as it's easy for me to very nearly do that. This stroke in competition has always looked high-energy-cost and non-streamlined to me hence my disinterest. I've become more interested recently as my aim has been to be able to swim/float/do-anything towards survival (and/or enjoyment as the case may be) at sea -or, rather, in any water. Sounds like I should seriously learn Breaststroke?

Solo Thesailor
In competitive breaststroke one dolphin kick is permitted after the start and each turn but otherwise the whip kick is obligatory.

The dolphin kick is used in freestyle, mainly in the shorter distances, for part of the underwater periods after the dive and the turn or turns. For longer races the energy exerted is not usually thought to be worth the benefit in speed.

It is a very important part of modern competitive backstroke because most good backstrokers can swim faster under water with the dolphin kick than they can using full stroke on the surface. They are limited to fifteen meters each length but few if any can do that on all lengths of a 200-meter race, say.

If your instructor says you are a natural breaststroker, I definitely think you should give it a serious try.
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  #6  
Old 06-09-2011
tab tab is offline
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Here I am wiping a dead horse, still. Try dolphin kick with free style. I doubt it is faster than the 2bk but fun all the same. I missed a recent swim meet where they did a relay in which the 4 main strokes were not allowed, everything else goes, even feet first down the lane.
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  #7  
Old 06-09-2011
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi Tab

I think dolphin kick freestyle is very useful as a stage on the way to a decent two-beat kick. It has been used in high-level competition for the last couple of strokes - by Michael Klim among others.

Feet first down the lane is a good sculling exercise, as is sculling with your knees pulled up to your chest. Both are good for the forearm muscles and supposedly for the legendary "feel for the water".

I find dolphin kick on the back and dolphin kick on the side very difficult, but undoubtedly should do more of this drill to improve core strength and flexibility.
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  #8  
Old 06-09-2011
tab tab is offline
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Hi Richard, I am still green when it comes to swimming. This drill really shows me how the core is attached to the 2bk. I will have to look up Michael Klim.
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  #9  
Old 06-09-2011
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Here's a link to the wikipedia article on Michael Klim:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Klim
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  #10  
Old 01-23-2012
GretchenT GretchenT is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solothesailor View Post
When I read here that most people couldn't stand with feet at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock, that stunned me too as it's easy for me to very nearly do that.
My feet can go to about 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock which is what they do on whip kicks. I've always liked doing whip kicks over freestyle kicks. I've never been able to get much power from my legs with a freestyle kick. I remember in high school during swim practices I was always the slowest when we used kicking boards since I wasn't able to use my arms. I do have bad knees and they do get soar faster with a whip kick as opposed to a freestyle kick but for me it's more efficient and easier for me.
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