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  #1  
Old 06-06-2010
nc452010 nc452010 is offline
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nc452010
Default I need to make some gains in the next 2 wks

I did my 1st sprint tri yesterday. My splits aren't available, yet....so I have no idea how I did time-wise. But, I know I had to resort to side stroke just 200yds (actually, I was SO gassed at that point...I'm guessing) into a 300yd swim leg.

I bought 'Easy freestyle' and I've been doing the drills. I find them VERY difficult. Just being honest. I do them "some", still.

My issue is I get completely out of breath, rather rapidly. What I'm trying to do is NOT kick, much, thinking it'll take too much oxygen, doing so. What I find when I'm just "swimming" (i.e. not trying to go any distance) is....I can do a (what I believe to be) 4 beat kick....and it does wonders for keeping me in a better body position. I'm just hesitant to try it for longer distances. "Longer" is relative, here. To date, I've managed to go 300yds a handful of times in my training. I'm having a &$%#* of a time progressing. I've been in the water +/- 40X since I picked up swimming again a couple + months ago.

I have another sprint (300yds swim leg) in 2 weeks. If you were me.....what SPECIFICALLY would you be working on to gain the added endurance?

I have swam a 25yd length in as few as 11SPL's and I can hold 14-15 for 200yds. COULD I be "over-breathing" and hyperventilating? When I tell you I get gassed.....I mean GASSED, quickly.

What's frustrating to me is.....I keep hearing swimming is all technique. I buy that - to an extent. I was traveling last month, and watched a man swim 400yds, taking THIRTY-FIVE SPL and his kick was all over the place. How can he do THAT.....and I can't make that distance with what I feel is a lot more efficient swimming technique?

Given my time in the pool so far (some may say it's miniscule....some may say it's enough to make an endurance leap), how much gains can I make in 2 weeks? I'll swim every day, if that's what it takes.

Last question.........

Is it "possible" that I could swim with more efficiency....if I incorporate the 4beat kick? In other words...is it ever possible to swim FASTER (which, I most certainly will) AND swim more efficiently (i.e. better oxygen use)?

I'm going to get my wife to film me in the water, today. I'm going to have her film my stroke that I'm using to go SLOW...which is the one I'm able to do the 300yds with. And, I'll have her film the stroke with the 4 beat (I think!) kick......to let you see the difference. I will also need to ask how to post a video.

Thanks, SINCERELY!

jeff

p.s. Terry's corresponded with me (so has Suzanne)....and I wanted to thank them for their willingness to help. I'm trying!
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  #2  
Old 06-06-2010
KatieK KatieK is offline
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Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nc452010 View Post
I have swam a 25yd length in as few as 11SPL's and I can hold 14-15 for 200yds. COULD I be "over-breathing" and hyperventilating? When I tell you I get gassed.....I mean GASSED, quickly.
Are you exhaling enough? Carbon dioxide buildup causes serious fatigue. Whenever your face is in the water, you need to be breathing out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nc452010 View Post
I'm going to get my wife to film me in the water, today. I'm going to have her film my stroke that I'm using to go SLOW...which is the one I'm able to do the 300yds with. And, I'll have her film the stroke with the 4 beat (I think!) kick......to let you see the difference. I will also need to ask how to post a video.
Most people upload their video to YouTube or some other site and then paste the URL into their post.
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  #3  
Old 06-06-2010
nc452010 nc452010 is offline
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nc452010
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I'm fairly certain I'm exhaling, fully. I've even done the forceful exhale....which in my mind makes me want even more of an inhale (bigger bite).
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  #4  
Old 06-06-2010
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Just a very quick note on you attempting to use a two beat kick. Don't get misled into thinking a 2BK is better for you at this point in time. You will find people on this forum who have been swimming TI for years and are trying to incorporate a 2BK. If you feel as though a 4BK or what ever works better for you, go for it and work into the 2BK. I swam next to a lady yesterday who had an SPL of 28 (but I never count others strokes for comparison) she was about four secs on a fifty faster than I. Three nights ago at an OWS 1/3 mile across and 1/3 mile back same woman and I started together, she beat me in the first third and was resting to return. I didn't stop did the second third while she was lagging considerably and then chose not to go with me to round out a mile.

Point being don't get lulled into what others can do viewing for the short term. Be satisfied with your progress and enjoy the moment, feel the water and relax.

BTW I sure as heck am not a rocket in the water.

Be Well and Swim Silent
Westy
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  #5  
Old 06-06-2010
naj naj is offline
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Another thing to consider is how excited you are before the race. This can cause you to get out of breath quickly, zap energy, and lose focus before the race starts. How focused are you that you feel comfortable at what your doing? It sounds as if not very much, but if you have strong confidence in yourself and our abilities you'll be okay.

Let me tell you a secret, I love endurance swims and love the challenge, but I'll fail every time if I think of the whole thing in one shot. Break it down into sections, the first 100 yards, 2nd 100 and so on then you can have goals set and achieve them realistically.

Lastly - in my opinion - swimming, and especially endurance swimming, is mostly mental not technique.

Keep Swimming!
Naji
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  #6  
Old 06-06-2010
splashingpat splashingpat is offline
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splashingpat
Default mostly mental... r u ready for this?

Quote:
Originally Posted by naj View Post
Another thing to consider is how excited you are before the race. This can cause you to get out of breath quickly, zap energy, and lose focus before the race starts. How focused are you that you feel comfortable at what your doing? It sounds as if not very much, but if you have strong confidence in yourself and our abilities you'll be okay.

Let me tell you a secret, I love endurance swims and love the challenge, but I'll fail every time if I think of the whole thing in one shot. Break it down into sections, the first 100 yards, 2nd 100 and so on then you can have goals set and achieve them realistically.

Lastly - in my opinion - swimming, and especially endurance swimming, is mostly mental not technique.

Keep Swimming!
Naji
First of all!
I love secrets...breakin it down!

I never swam 400 yards FREESTYLE CRAWL....
until it was a prerequisite for becoming a lifeguard....
and my first times I swam it were strugglin' with a poor form...

and I see guards with poor form all the time
but until I stumbled on a MASTER CLASS with a TI INSTRUCTOR
Leading it....
I still swam poor form for the 1hour and 1/2 my first day....
so mentally I guess I wanted it bad enuf....
now with great form...
I find it too easy...
IS THAT GOOD NEWS OR BAD?

I love reading the POST WITH GREAT FORM....
MINE IS USUALLY REAL HARD TO UNDERSTAND....
struggling....but you guys
DO PUT IT INTO WORDS THAT ARE EASY TO READ
AND UNDERSTAND!

thanks and I appreciate ones that dance with great or poor form!
hope YA'S DO TOO!
(me, once again,
Pat)
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  #7  
Old 06-06-2010
splashingpat splashingpat is offline
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splashingpat
Default Katie I'd like to chat....just cause thats easier for me

Quote:
Originally Posted by KatieK View Post
Are you exhaling enough? Carbon dioxide buildup causes serious fatigue. Whenever your face is in the water, you need to be breathing out.


Most people upload their video to YouTube or some other site and then paste the URL into their post.
katie I'd like to chat
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  #8  
Old 06-07-2010
cmperkins cmperkins is offline
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Location: Stirling, Scotland.
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cmperkins
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Hi,

I did a sprint Tri today - beat my original goal for 750m by two minutes!!

Like you, I was getting a little anxious trying to learn TI and build up the distance. I used to manage 50m with OK technique and then need to stop for a breather. If you're like me, it's far more to do with breathing rhythm than too much kicking (although I don't really force my kick, my legs just kinda trail behind).

As Katie said, you must exhale fully, which you say you're doing. What's your breathing cycle? I was getting all hung up on bilateral breathing every three strokes, but I just can't do that for more than 100m. The best rhythm for me is breathing every two strokes (so always to one side) - right side up the pool and left side back down.

Nice rhythmic breathing at a comfortable interval should ensure you're not getting stressed, not building up CO2 and getting the oxygen you need to keep going. There are some great posts in the O2 in H2O forum on this.

Oh, one other thing: were you wearing a swim cap for the first time in the tri? I couldn't believe the effect it had the first time I wore one. Because it insulates your head, you get hotter and more tired faster. Practice with a swim cap to get used to the effect.

All the best for your next tri!

Chris.
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  #9  
Old 06-07-2010
terry terry is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nc452010 View Post
Is it "possible" that I could swim with more efficiency....if I incorporate the 4beat kick?
Jeff
It's good to see you here. My best advice is to put less emphasis on what kind of kick you're using. In fact ignore it if possible. The biggest difference-makers in reducing that "gassed" feeling will be - in this order
1) Make sure you're exhaling steadily and fully - at no point should you not be exchanging air. It's either going in or coming out.
2) Release your head into weightlessness.
3) Swim with less noise and fewer bubbles.
4) Finish your stroke to the front. By that I mean visualize the hand targets you see on the Easy Free DVD and spear your hand through that target on each stroke. When I use the term "spear" I'm not implying a sharp or stabbing motion - just a complete extension of your bodyline to the front.

Choose one focal point. Spend 5 to 7 minutes on it. Move to the next. Use your pool time for the next two weeks to train your brain to stay on one chosen focus point. During the next race, you want to know the focus points you will keep in mind. You can change focus points during the race, but at any time focus on doing ONE THING WELL.
__________________
Terry Laughlin
Head Coach & Chief Executive Optimist

May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story
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  #10  
Old 06-07-2010
nc452010 nc452010 is offline
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nc452010
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Terry:

I put a LOT of trust in you.....lol. And, I'll follow your advice. I wanna go into a little more detail of what I'm feeling, though.

Utilizing my "slow as Christmas" stroke, I feel FAR less sound (technique-wise). I know my legs are all over the place. I really feel like I'm having to start over, after every breath. Seems like that's taking a lot of energy.

Again....I'll follow your advice. But, do I go into this with the idea of just working to streamline my legs behind me (regardless of the kicking motion)? When I kick (the one I described), I notice how much better my body position is. But, like I said.....I know there's a cost to kicking, more.

I hope that makes sense.

Also.....will I have the "possibility" of more/better gains in the time frame allotted by swimming every day? Every other? I'll swim 2X/day if I think that's what it's gonna take.

Sincerely,

jeff
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