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  #1  
Old 08-12-2015
RXL RXL is offline
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RXL
Default Increased stroke rate

My stroke rate is currently around 64 spm and someone mentioned that this seemed too slow. I am 69" tall and take approx 18 strokes per 25 metre lengths.
I figured that to increase stroke rate then I would have to obviously move my arms faster through the water but surely this would make my hands slip rather than get a good hold on the water for propulsion, what am I missing as it is not currently making any sense to me. Please be gentle I am still a relative beginner!
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  #2  
Old 08-12-2015
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello RXL,


WOW
that's a starting point I'm jealous! (Can't even think about as long time goal.)

With SR of 0,94s (who will call it slow?) it's faster than Terry who works to get used of 1.0s for longer swims. With 18SPL you're still in the middle of your GZ. And 1:19min/100m will be a dreamtime for most (at least many) readers.

Seems to me it might be hard to find some FPs to improve measurable.

Go on! And best regards,
Werner
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  #3  
Old 08-12-2015
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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imcreasing strokerate means faster arm and kick rate and faster roll rate.
Everyting has to move faster.
If your traction on the water is good, the extra slippage is small.
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  #4  
Old 08-12-2015
descending descending is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RXL View Post
My stroke rate is currently around 64 spm and someone mentioned that this seemed too slow. I am 69" tall and take approx 18 strokes per 25 metre lengths.
I figured that to increase stroke rate then I would have to obviously move my arms faster through the water but surely this would make my hands slip rather than get a good hold on the water for propulsion, what am I missing as it is not currently making any sense to me. Please be gentle I am still a relative beginner!
What is your threshold pace/100m at 64? Tough to just go on someone saying it seemed slow. We have people on our team who race from 65-95 at nearly the same pace. My knee jerk reaction is that it might be too slow, but the only way you find out is through experimentation with stroke rate. I say might b/c I assume you are racing for your fastest time and not just to complete it, but that might not be the correct assumption. If your goal is to expend as little energy as possible then 64 might be your bullseye. My open water distance effort is right at 68 these days and I'm 6'1". You could take 3 other guys at my height and they might all differ. Take from that what you will.

Last edited by descending : 08-12-2015 at 11:12 PM.
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  #5  
Old 08-12-2015
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RXL View Post
My stroke rate is currently around 64 spm and someone mentioned that this seemed too slow. I am 69" tall and take approx 18 strokes per 25 metre lengths.
I figured that to increase stroke rate then I would have to obviously move my arms faster through the water but surely this would make my hands slip rather than get a good hold on the water for propulsion, what am I missing as it is not currently making any sense to me. Please be gentle I am still a relative beginner!
Hi RXL,

Always a good question, pace clock only tells elapsed time, doesn't distinguish, turn/push from meters stroked.

Use the familiar formula r=d/t or in a swimming context, pace=stroke length / tempo (secs/stroke). Assuming your 18 strokes excludes a 5m wall push, you are stroking 20 meters, adjust the math if more or less push.

SL: 20m/18strokes = 1.11m (adjust for actual glide off the wall)
Tempo: 60/64 = .94 secs per stroke
Pace: 1.11m/.94s = 1.18 m/sec
100m pace: 100/1.18 = 84.75 seconds or ~ 1:25

If you increase your tempo to 70 spm or .86 secs per stroke and still hold stroke length 1.11m (18 spl), then 100m pace would be: 1:17. If you add two strokes (20 spl) at the faster tempo, 100m pace would be 1:26 .. and so on. You get the idea.

Here's a USMS blog that may help: High Turnover vs Right Turnover Find the right tempo and stroke length for *your* skill level that is sustainable for the distance you are swimming

Stuart
MindBodyAndSwim
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  #6  
Old 08-13-2015
RXL RXL is offline
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Thanks for the replies. I just thought I would add some detail regarding my last Open water swim which I swam at a relatively leisurely pace. The Garmin showed: 1,339 mtrs dist, 2:18min/100 mtrs, avs stroke rate 58, max stroke rate 68 for a moving time of 30.44.
What I intend to do is find a local TI coach here in the UK to improve my stroke during the closed season for open water, thanks again for the help.
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  #7  
Old 08-14-2015
Streak Streak is offline
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RXL.
Something does not seem right here.
At these numbers your strokes per 25 would be 33 which is very different from the 18 in your OP?
My swim maths is not great so hopefully one of the pros will comment too!
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Old 08-14-2015
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RXL View Post
Thanks for the replies. I just thought I would add some detail regarding my last Open water swim which I swam at a relatively leisurely pace. The Garmin showed: 1,339 mtrs dist, 2:18min/100 mtrs, avs stroke rate 58, max stroke rate 68 for a moving time of 30.44.
What I intend to do is find a local TI coach here in the UK to improve my stroke during the closed season for open water, thanks again for the help.
Have you checked the sea temperatures where you are?

I was very surprised that the sea temperature was higher in December than April on the south coast, so much longer open water season than I'd always assumed.

Where are you, some good coaches around here.
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  #9  
Old 08-15-2015
RXL RXL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Streak View Post
RXL.
Something does not seem right here.
At these numbers your strokes per 25 would be 33 which is very different from the 18 in your OP?
My swim maths is not great so hopefully one of the pros will comment too!
I think I can answer this. There are three possible things that could attribute to this, I will assume your calc is correct. One, the Garmin has thrown out some odd data, unlikely but not unknown. Two, this was an open water swim so no push off assistance from the pool wall, this would definitely put the stroke rate above 18. Three, as a beginner I have only just got my breathing right in open water so I do not have to take frequent rests but I really have to concentrate on my breathing. When doing this my stroke is not as efficient so probably pushes up the 18 count as well. I think it is a combination of two and three. Once I can pin down breathing and stroke efficiency I will pretty much hit the swimming Holy Grail.... Maybe!
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  #10  
Old 08-15-2015
RXL RXL is offline
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Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
Have you checked the sea temperatures where you are?

I was very surprised that the sea temperature was higher in December than April on the south coast, so much longer open water season than I'd always assumed.

Where are you, some good coaches around here.
Andy,
I currently swim in two lakes relatively close to me and their seasons finish in September/October. The coast is a fair trip for me and I would definitely not want to win on this coast without boat cover which would be difficult to arrange.

I am UK based and I am aware of some coaches that take the TI workshops so intend to contact one of those , possibly Keith Lewis.
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