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  #11  
Old 06-14-2018
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello hercusg,

with 1:09 sprint- and 1:45 cruising-pace (both impressing, first even more) no matter what you think, there must be a bunch of goodies in your stroke, and as Tom wrote, it might be a weird thing to brake your stroke down and build up again to TI-like.

I'd recommend to get in contact with mastercoach Mat. He has a three-months 100m-sprint plan in his Dojo. Additionally you should buy one of Terry's fundamental-courses and then alternate a pooltime with pure TI-drills to get familiar with them and the other with Mat's 100m-sequenzes.

Keep your enjoyment! Best regards,
Werner
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  #12  
Old 06-14-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Another one that might help for sprint

https://youtu.be/MgMCLBctsGA
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  #13  
Old 06-14-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Here we go hip, shoulder & bodydriven specific to sprint finish (from 90mtrs)

So go out shoulder driven 80% effort for first 50mtrs
Then 3rd 25 powerful hip driven to recover lactate
then all out last 25 shifting into body driven for the last 10mtrs.

You should win.
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  #14  
Old 06-14-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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linky
https://youtu.be/XfjQkCeYB34
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  #15  
Old 06-14-2018
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hercusg@yahoo.com View Post
I have until April 2019 when I will be competing at our National championships. Your comments about technique make sense. Even though I can do 1:09 in a 100m sprint, I can only manage 1:45 pace when swimming a 800m. This for me points to poor technique. Surely I should be able to get closer to 1:35 pace when swimming longer distances?
A 1:45 pace for 800m is again, pretty good for distance swimming, though not as competitive as your 1:09 sprint speed. But do keep in mind you are working at two very different demands here with an 800m vs. a 100m race. You won't be able to achieve optimal times for both events at the same time.

A large part of gaining speed with TI methods is to learn to increase your stroke rate while keeping your stroke long. A Finis Tempo Trainer is extremely helpful for this. You might look at Terry's postings on ways to use a Tempo Trainer:

https://www.totalimmersion.net/forum...ead.php?t=2013

But first, are you familiar with the TI green zone chart? If not, read this:

https://mediterraswim.com/2014/03/01...stroke-length/

If you are not already in your green zone (based on your "wingspan" of outstretched arms), I'd suggest prioritizing your training to lengthen your stroke until you are. Swimming at high SPL (strokes per length) is an indicator of fundamental inefficiency in balance and streamline.

Based on your height (not as accurate as you wingspan), you should be using between 17-21 strokes to cross a 25m pool--if you use a standard 5m pushoff at the wall.

So, that should give you some idea how to train. If you can swim comfortably at speed at 17 SPL, your mechanics are pretty good. In that case, you would probably benefit most from Tempo Trainer work to increase your stroke rate while keeping your stroke long.

If you are taking more than 21 strokes to cross the pool at speed, then work on drills and slow, short repeats (25m, say) to increase the length of your stroke. A good TI swimmer should be able to choose any SPL (strokes per length) within his green zone at will, and will then play with SPL and stroke rate to adjust speed and perceived effort for any given distance and pace.

Hope some of that is helpful--you do have enough time to make significant progress in technique, but be patient with it. Good luck, and keep us posted on how your training progresses. (I agree with Werner that Coach Mat's materials are EXCELLENT, as is his blog (linked above).
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  #16  
Old 06-14-2018
gary p gary p is offline
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Let me get this out of the way, first. 5'7" isn't that short. Certainly not so short you need a unique approach to swimming. Don't let yourself use your height, or perceived lack thereof, as an excuse to discount coaching/technique advice. I've rarely seen stroke advice that was good for someone 6' that wouldn't be good for someone 5'7".


Now that I've addressed that, let's go to your current speed vs. your goal. A 1:09 100m isn't bad. Pretty good, actually. How frequently are you swimming? What are your workouts like? You may be a 1:45/100 long distance swimmer because your stroke is bad, or maybe you're not training for that. My thought is it has to be some of the latter, because to swim a 1:09 100, you have to be doing a lot right. Regardless, it doesn't matter much what your 800 speed is.

Getting to 1:05 in the 100 from where you are is a simple math problem. You either need to increase your stroke rate ~8%, increase your distance per stroke ~8%, or some combination of the two.* TI is a great resource to help improve your technique and therefore your DPS. But any adjustments need to be considered against the affect on stroke rate.

Search this forum for "USRPT" or Ultra Short Race Pace Training. I've used it with great success to train for competitions. It seems tailor-made for your very specific objective. Long story short, for the 100 free, it entails swimming lots of 25's at 100 "Race Pace" on short rest.


*There are other technical things you can do to improve your 100 time. Specifically, there's likely time to be gained just with better starts and turns.

Last edited by gary p : 06-15-2018 at 03:06 PM.
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  #17  
Old 06-14-2018
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Based on what I know about Gary's swimming from this forum, I'd say his advice is likely to be very very good.
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  #18  
Old 06-15-2018
hercusg@yahoo.com
 
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Thanks a lot. I will have a look.
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  #19  
Old 06-15-2018
hercusg@yahoo.com
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Pamperin View Post
A 1:45 pace for 800m is again, pretty good for distance swimming, though not as competitive as your 1:09 sprint speed. But do keep in mind you are working at two very different demands here with an 800m vs. a 100m race. You won't be able to achieve optimal times for both events at the same time.

A large part of gaining speed with TI methods is to learn to increase your stroke rate while keeping your stroke long. A Finis Tempo Trainer is extremely helpful for this. You might look at Terry's postings on ways to use a Tempo Trainer:

https://www.totalimmersion.net/forum...ead.php?t=2013

But first, are you familiar with the TI green zone chart? If not, read this:

https://mediterraswim.com/2014/03/01...stroke-length/

If you are not already in your green zone (based on your "wingspan" of outstretched arms), I'd suggest prioritizing your training to lengthen your stroke until you are. Swimming at high SPL (strokes per length) is an indicator of fundamental inefficiency in balance and streamline.

Based on your height (not as accurate as you wingspan), you should be using between 17-21 strokes to cross a 25m pool--if you use a standard 5m pushoff at the wall.

So, that should give you some idea how to train. If you can swim comfortably at speed at 17 SPL, your mechanics are pretty good. In that case, you would probably benefit most from Tempo Trainer work to increase your stroke rate while keeping your stroke long.

If you are taking more than 21 strokes to cross the pool at speed, then work on drills and slow, short repeats (25m, say) to increase the length of your stroke. A good TI swimmer should be able to choose any SPL (strokes per length) within his green zone at will, and will then play with SPL and stroke rate to adjust speed and perceived effort for any given distance and pace.

Hope some of that is helpful--you do have enough time to make significant progress in technique, but be patient with it. Good luck, and keep us posted on how your training progresses. (I agree with Werner that Coach Mat's materials are EXCELLENT, as is his blog (linked above).
Thank you very much. Great advice. I really appreciate it.
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  #20  
Old 06-15-2018
liolio
 
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5.7 does not seem that short to me, lots of men that size not too mention women.
YOU should calculate your "ape index", I would think that the higher your ape index the lower your spl which is not necessarily the best match for your O2 needs.

I'm a beginner (ish almost two years in learning by myself) I don't spend that much time swimming freestyle though I read quite some things on the topic as well as watch quite some vids (not too mention others swimmers).
I don't pretend to do it right (various issue and whereas I work on proprioception it is still far from perfect) the most common issues I see with other swimmers are:
Bad overall body alignment /streamline
Bad spearing /extension (from over crossing from having the forearm moving upward)
Kicking too hard
(there is breathing but some open water swimmers purposefully have a weird breathing technique).
Too high SPL, I see a lot of people putting a F lots of efforts in the water and not maximizing their work.

All that said some are still going pretty fast, there is hope for all us ;) Definitely champion elite swimmers are tall (especially freestylers and basck strokers) but it is not what is holding you back.

When I feel down with my progress the thing keeps me going is the "feel" of water, experimenting with water reactionto pressures, working on proprioception in the water. Swimming in another person turbulences (and make it into a smooth ride), etc.
Putting the chronometers down 10 minutes (or more) and rediscovering "water", keep the experience fresh, an on going discovery of the medium which we are travelling through: time... I mean water :=)
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