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  #71  
Old 10-06-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by Jeffinhawaii View Post
The problem with looking at swimming frame by frame is that it is meaningless. Sun looks slow with little propulsion and lots of drag in still frames ...

I think this interpretation is completely influenced by what you've been taught about swimming and what you've learned through practice. I think he looks fast in all frames...while you cant "see" decreased drag as an absolite number you can certainly see streamlining of his body. Granted he could improve streamlining, but I have a hunch that many of his more poorly streamlined moments are due to body density...he's pretty low in the water at many points and creates some banana body shapes. I'm not sure if htis is something he can correct, although if I were his coach in the off season I'd sure be looking at it.
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  #72  
Old 10-06-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
he's pretty low in the water at many points and creates some banana body shapes. I'm not sure if htis is something he can correct, although if I were his coach in the off season I'd sure be looking at it.
Voilà. I am in total agreement with this. It's a major issue, I got no solution at the moment. Rushall seems to believe that a higher lower body position could help eliminating these banana shapes, and it's not a stupid assumption.

The only problem is that for this you need to rely on a 6bk.....

I would have appreciated that Brent Rushall performs a biomechanical comparison analysis between his stroke over 1500 and his stroke over the 400m free, since in the case of the 400, Sun displays a stroke much closer than what Brent would consider an ideal stroke over 1500.

Then again the main problem is that he still suffers from swimming uphill even during this 400, with a strong 6bk, etc...

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 10-06-2012 at 06:46 PM.
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  #73  
Old 10-06-2012
Jeffinhawaii Jeffinhawaii is offline
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I agree. Watching motion is very useful. I wonder how much any coach can change the stroke of a swimmer like sun at this point. Or if they would want too. Perhaps little details on streamlining? His technique seems complex and variable and he seems to know exactly what he is doing throughout the race. He does look more dense and powerful than the other swimmers in the final
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  #74  
Old 10-06-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeffinhawaii View Post
I agree. Watching motion is very useful. I wonder how much any coach can change the stroke of a swimmer like sun at this point. Or if they would want too. Perhaps little details on streamlining? His technique seems complex and variable and he seems to know exactly what he is doing throughout the race. He does look more dense and powerful than the other swimmers in the final
If an elite swimmer is not open to improvements and change they are just going to spend the next 4 years (or 2 or however long to the next major meet) swimming hard or swimming long. I'm simplifying...but I think swimmers in this category...phelps as well, are long conditioned to doing drills, trying to feelings, making changes, etc. I could be wrong but listen to some interviews with him or with his coach...always thinking about technique.

These swimmers are so talented that they can create any position or feeling inthe water they want, and they and their coach just need the patience to execute an improvement plan.

Or I could be full of it. But maybe Joey Novak would chime in here...Joey swam in the same lane as Jason Lezak for awhile, and Jason would often if not always, go last in his lane to focus on technique changes/upgrades/minutia.
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  #75  
Old 10-07-2012
azamy azamy is offline
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Default Sun should know about this

My habit for the last half decade was "news articles" every morning but for the last couple of months that has changed to "articles on TI forums" These days I read more about swimming than I swim LOL :) anyways.

I think Sun Yang would be amazed to know how much attention is given to his swimming technique on TI forums with invaluable advice for improvement. He or his coach should be informed about this. I am sure they'll enjoy all these discussions as much as we do and probably benefit from the advice and analysis of the experienced coaches here.
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  #76  
Old 10-07-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Originally Posted by azamy View Post
I think Sun Yang would be amazed to know how much attention is given to his swimming technique on TI forums with invaluable advice for improvement
Likewise, you'd be amazed to spend a year witnessing what these guys do.
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  #77  
Old 10-08-2012
Jeffinhawaii Jeffinhawaii is offline
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I'm sure world record holders strive to improve every practice and every stroke and at this point sun is probably his own best coach and probably his own harshest critic too. The thought of sun reading and getting something fron t.i. Forums is really funny. I liked that one.
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  #78  
Old 10-08-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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The level of coaching Suns received from his team, there are probably at least 5 person involved, phs preparator, coach, physiotherapist, massage therapist, md, I'm sure he can count on at least these guys, best in the country.


The level of coaching this guy a) needs amd b)) receives goes sooooo much far beyond what's available on the web. We're still very very far from that.
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  #79  
Old 10-08-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
The level of coaching Suns received from his team, there are probably at least 5 person involved, phs preparator, coach, physiotherapist, massage therapist, md, I'm sure he can count on at least these guys, best in the country.


The level of coaching this guy a) needs amd b)) receives goes sooooo much far beyond what's available on the web. We're still very very far from that.
We can be Rocky to his Drago (Rocky 4, heart and mind vs science and technology) :)
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  #80  
Old 10-08-2012
Jeffinhawaii Jeffinhawaii is offline
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For a sun or phelps swimming is a full time job involving many people in support and hours of stretching and physio and cross training and analysis etc. but at the end of it all it is the athlete that must find the path to world record speed. They must literally feel their way to success. That is our common ground. No amount of coaching can turn anyone on this forum into a sun and few will even get to anything approaching shinji but we are all primarily self coached and self motivated and operating on the same level playing field learning by feel and experimentation.

Just remember, practice doesn't make perfect, practice just makes permanent. Perfect practice makes perfect permanent.
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