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  #1  
Old 07-26-2012
russellw russellw is offline
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russellw
Default How do you hold water ... ???

Hi all,

Forgive me if this subject is in another thread, but can anyone elaborate on how to hold the water in the catch position ??

I have read in other subject threads that the key to propulsion is to hold the water, kick and hip drive to move past the hand holding or anchoring in place.

I seem to initiate my pull too early, is it just a case of the all elusive patient lead hand ?? Can anyone tell me or describe what the feeling is like when you hold the water in place and move past this on the next stroke.

I try to place my hand with fingers pointing down, but I don't know what I am supposed to feel. Hope I have explained this so you guys understand my question !!!

Many thanks

Russ
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  #2  
Old 07-26-2012
daveblt daveblt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russellw View Post
Hi all,

I have read in other subject threads that the key to propulsion is to hold the water, kick and hip drive to move past the hand holding or anchoring in place.
Russ

This is exactly how to do it .
The feeling you should get is resistance on the palm of your hand and forearm and not a feeling of the arm just slipping through the water .If the hand pulls back faster than the body is moving then you are slipping and not gripping. Think of pulling your body past your hand .

Dave
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  #3  
Old 07-26-2012
russellw russellw is offline
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Hi Dave,

Many thanks for your reply, you give an excellent explanation to my question.

This I my problem, in as much as I must pull harder than my body is moving forward.


Is this just mind over matter, where I must focus on anchoring the hand, rather than some technique to put into practice that will enable me to hold the water in place ?


Regards

Russ
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  #4  
Old 07-26-2012
tony0000 tony0000 is offline
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Focusing on different things work for different people. Let's assume that your hand is correctly positioned, that your palm is not facing your body, etc. To get the most out of your pull at this point you have to decrease drag by keeping the body straight and level. One way of doing this is doing this is just to concentrate on keeping the body straight and level. Another way is to concentrate on the effects of keeping the body that way--maximizing the distance moved per stroke. Another way may be to focus on the feel of the catch, of holding the water. (Personally, this latter method has never worked well for me, but that's just me.)

And as a beginner myself, I'll also offer this. There is nothing intrinsically wrong about moving your and quickly through the water on the pull. Some efficiency is lost, but some speed is gained. I think your pull should be as fast as possible within your limits. But increasing the speed of the pull should only be your focus after you've done everything to minimize your drag.

Good luck,

Tony
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  #5  
Old 07-28-2012
ashby ashby is offline
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Not sure i have anything to add other than to say that the everybody pulling hand/arm slips backwards through the water to some extent. Even very fast elite swimmers...
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  #6  
Old 07-28-2012
Janos Janos is offline
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Russ, my suggestion is to swim a few lengths and count your strokes. Then stop at the end of the pool, and stand up. Put your arms under the water, and articulate both arms as you would in the catch, and then scull your hands sideways, and feel the thickness of the water. Keep doing this for about five minutes at least. Then start doing a length at a time, then stopping and repeating the sculling, and then count your strokes each length. You should see an immediate improvement. After a few days of this, do the same sculling exercise, but keep your fists clenched. You want to feel the thickness of the water with the inside of your forearm, which is not as sensitive to touch as your palm, and then start doing lengths as normal. You should be cultivating a heightened sense of the thickness of the water. You can also then progress to full lengths of closed fist freestyle. I like to think of the catch, as the recovery in reverse, the arm shape is similar, and the surface area is quite large, so don't focus just on the hand.

Regards to all

Janos
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  #7  
Old 07-28-2012
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Default The Elusive Catch

Been at this for some time now and still am trying to get that non slip feeling.
It has gotten so much better although much work needs to be done. Three pieces I have found are crucial. The more streamline/balance the less I feel water move around my arms. Good rotation with spear allows for catch arm to naturally move back or body move forward past the catch. The first two depend on timing.

Now the plea, there are fleeting moments when it may all come together then bingo gone. Had a good swim this afternoon with some of that magic feeling just really enjoying the process.

Swim Silent and Be Well
Westy
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  #8  
Old 07-29-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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I feel like I'm placing my hand and forearm on a vertically oriented concrete wall coming up from the bottom of the pool. I place my forearm on the opposite side and rotate past. Seriously. I only put as much pressure on the arm as I can without feeling the sensation of this wall melting or crumbling.
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  #9  
Old 08-29-2012
truth1ness truth1ness is offline
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I imagine like I'm rolling my body over/around a giant delicate water balloon or bubble. If I drive my hand straight down and back I'll pop it. But if I roll my body to the other side and skim around it as I spear forward I don't have to put as much pressure on it, I can just swoosh it back once my weight is off of it.

There will always be slippage. Assuming your hand/forearm is facing the right way to catch water, your remaining variable is how much drag you have to push against. If your body isn't in a good low drag position at the start of the pull, you're gonna pop the bubble. That's why avoiding the early pull is important. Early pull might be a balance issue, you are feeling like you are sinking when you breathe so your arm starts to press down on that bubble of water too soon for support and pops it before you start your weight shift.
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  #10  
Old 08-29-2012
tomoy tomoy is offline
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Lots of good experience here.

I found that pulling my hand beneath my body felt like it was slipping. I think maybe because there's turbulence or a different water-motion directly beneath me. I never really felt I could 'hold water' until I learned to spear wide, wait until I began rotating (that helps you to keep your hand outside your body line), then pull directly back from that wide shoulder position.

It's not exactly what I see in the Terry/Shinji videos, but the wide tracks is something I've seen others do and I find the still water beside me easier to grab, than the water below me. This is exaggerating the feel, but it's more like canoe paddling to the sides of the hull. Okay, maybe if I took video, it would look like normal TI wide tracks, but mentally I really had to push my rails out wider than I thought.

Best of luck!
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