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  #1  
Old 01-03-2013
rwilkes rwilkes is offline
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rwilkes
Default Diaphragmatic Breathing

Hi everyone,

From the title of this thread, you may think my post should be in the breathing forum......., but please read on !!!!

I am having trouble with bi-lateral breathing, more to the point, not exhaling enough of air. I have read about diaphragmatic breathing, and using the diaphram to inhale and exhale.

My questions relates to body posture and balance. Coach Suzanne in a recent post about balance mentioned to help with balance, we pull our tummy in, Coach Ingrid mentioned this also...., but diaphragmatic breathing wants us to release the tummy, as opposed to holding it tight.

i just wondered what you guys think on this issue....... do you use the diaphram to breath ??? Or should i just concentrate on exhaling more using the conventional chest area.

Your thoughts on this would be appreciated !

Regards

Russ
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  #2  
Old 01-03-2013
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hallo Russ,

attention, 2ct from a non coach: Don't think about breast-diaphragmic-tummy-breathing. Focus on relaxation and decide how to exhale most air in your most possible relaxed way. Even your face should be relaxed when exhaling. It might help to start exhaling that way on the pool edge several times to get the feeling for it.

Regards,
Werner
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  #3  
Old 01-04-2013
tomoy tomoy is offline
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I've wondered about this too. My strong breathing side, I have no problem getting a good relaxed breath. On my weak side I notice that my somewhat flexed core muscles seem to be keeping me from getting a good inhale, and what air I do get is shallow and in the chest.

I've played around a lot with where I'm holding my air when in Superman Glide. Balance is definitely improved when I can relax and hold my air deeper in my lungs.

I haven't figured out exactly how, but I 'know' that the more relaxed I am breathing, the deeper the air goes, the more balanced I am in the water, so that's all good. But trying to move a little faster and get more out of rotation demands more core flexing. So managing that with a relaxed breath is hard. Sorry, no answer here from this non-coach, but I do feel your quandary.
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  #4  
Old 01-04-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwilkes View Post
My questions relates to body posture and balance. Coach Suzanne in a recent post about balance mentioned to help with balance, we pull our tummy in,


Russ, I'm glad you're reading & thinking! I can assure you I never used the phrase, "pull our tummy in", although I understand what you are saying. What I probably said was to tuck the pelvis in, or pull the pelvic bone toward the ribcage.

There are muscles we use for posture that are independant of the muscles used for breathing. They're all tied together for sure, but when we have good posture standing on land, we can still be relaxed and take a full breath of air.

In water, our body weight is supported and we lose the orientation that gravity provides, so it's easy to let the postural muscles over-relax, which interferes with swimmign well.

It's still possible to take a deep diaphramatic breath while keeping the pelvis in proper position both on land and in the water. Try it while standing. Take a really deep breath and let your belly expand forward. You can do this while still standing straight up and not hvaing your posture collapse or your low back sway to far.

You can do the same int he water, you just have to retrain the way your core works. If a tight abdomen is makgin breathign hard, it's too tight. Relax a little. But don't relax so much your back sways.

Try it on land first to convince yourself it's possible, then try it in the water.

Then relax and have fun swimmign.
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #5  
Old 01-04-2013
rwilkes rwilkes is offline
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Hi guys,

many thanks for the replies and your thoughts.

Werner - I know exactly what you mean, relaxation is the key. However, I have been doing TI for about 3 years now, and I still can't exhale enough. Last tri season I shifted to breath every two, which was OK, but I would really like to breath every 3.

My sincere apologies to you Coach Suzanne for mis-quoting you..... come to think of it, i think your phrase was to do with the pelvis tilt, more that a tummy tuck !

I will try to do as you say...... hold posture but try a deeper breath. I think I do tuck my tummy in, as oposed to pulling my pelvis upward.... thanks for the correction !!!!

Another observation I had today..... could it be that I am taking in "TOO MUCH" air, compared to the amount of air that I exhale ???

Here, my thoughts should really be in the breathing forum i know, but today after my swim I reviewed my breathing and I do breath with a full, open mouth, kind of a big, "gasp" of air in.

I have read on here (again, I think from your goodself Suzanne... although I will not quote you..), about a "popeye" breath, with the mouth kind of half closed as opposed to a full, mouthful of air...... should i try this method ????

Once again, thanks for your thoughts and opinions, they are great a great help !!
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  #6  
Old 01-05-2013
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwilkes View Post
Hi guys,

many thanks for the replies and your thoughts.

Werner - I know exactly what you mean, relaxation is the key. However, I have been doing TI for about 3 years now, and I still can't exhale enough. Last tri season I shifted to breath every two, which was OK, but I would really like to breath every 3.

My sincere apologies to you Coach Suzanne for mis-quoting you..... come to think of it, i think your phrase was to do with the pelvis tilt, more that a tummy tuck !

I will try to do as you say...... hold posture but try a deeper breath. I think I do tuck my tummy in, as oposed to pulling my pelvis upward.... thanks for the correction !!!!

Another observation I had today..... could it be that I am taking in "TOO MUCH" air, compared to the amount of air that I exhale ???

Here, my thoughts should really be in the breathing forum i know, but today after my swim I reviewed my breathing and I do breath with a full, open mouth, kind of a big, "gasp" of air in.

I have read on here (again, I think from your goodself Suzanne... although I will not quote you..), about a "popeye" breath, with the mouth kind of half closed as opposed to a full, mouthful of air...... should i try this method ????

Once again, thanks for your thoughts and opinions, they are great a great help !!
If you are already running and cycling then next time you are doing a distance training on bike or run, be aware of how little you are breathing, or how smooth and easy it is. That's the goal in the swimming pool too, you just have to sync it with the stroke cycle.

Its about little bubbles though not jet streams
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  #7  
Old 01-07-2013
DD_l_enclume DD_l_enclume is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
There are muscles we use for posture that are independant of the muscles used for breathing. They're all tied together for sure, but when we have good posture standing on land, we can still be relaxed and take a full breath of air.
Hi Doc,
Happy new year !

First, when you say tucking in the pelvis, is that the image on the right (b) of this link ?
http://www.lanimuelrath.com/wp-conte...lvic-tilt2.png

If so, don't you use abdominal muscle for that ?
Can you tell a bit more of the muscles involved ?
(I'm trying to get rid of an arched lower back when swimming)


Thanks.
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  #8  
Old 01-07-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DD_l_enclume View Post
Hi Doc,
Happy new year !

First, when you say tucking in the pelvis, is that the image on the right (b) of this link ?
http://www.lanimuelrath.com/wp-conte...lvic-tilt2.png

If so, don't you use abdominal muscle for that ?
Can you tell a bit more of the muscles involved ?
(I'm trying to get rid of an arched lower back when swimming)


Thanks.
Yes, picture B is what I'm talking about.

You use mostly your abdominus rectus muscles to do that, but your erector spinea and hip flexors must be flexible and the hamstrings & gluts must be activated. This is the opposite of what most people end up having...

most people have tight hip flexors and weak gluts/hammies from sitting all day and the low back muscles tighten up to support the upper body on a pelvis that's anteriorly tilted.

This is both much more complex and much more subtle than simply tightening your core muscles.

And independent of breathing. Getting this posture correct will actually make breathing easier as it frees up all the intercoastals and expands the space inside the thorax, allowing the abodominal cavity to respond to the diaphram.

it will take time, it's not as easy as looking at a photo and making it happen! (as you've found out). be patient.
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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