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  #11  
Old 01-05-2010
flppr flppr is offline
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i don't know that time off makes me forget bad habits. i will say that filming myself makes me want to forget them very badly, and time off makes me think about good habits i want to work on next swim.
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  #12  
Old 01-05-2010
vol vol is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flppr View Post
time off makes me think about good habits i want to work on next swim.
That's what I meant, and exactly what happened to me. During the days I didn't swim, I did think over and over again about how I was going to improve next time. That apparently helped from the very first lap the next time. If you swim too frequently, you have little time to think :)
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  #13  
Old 01-05-2010
elk-tamer elk-tamer is offline
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I read this thread yesterday before I swam. Although I spent most of my time trying to make sure I was breathing without flexing my neck and keeping one eye below the surface, I tried for a few "low spl" lengths just before leaving. I failed badly at it; I can usually manage 12 but I was over 15 each time. The odd thing though was that I was doing each 25m in 21s, which is faster than I can manage going full out.
I'm really curious to see whether I can do it again today.

Last edited by elk-tamer : 01-05-2010 at 07:23 PM. Reason: corrected 50m to 25m
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  #14  
Old 01-08-2010
DesertDog DesertDog is offline
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This is great stuff. I'm glad it popped up again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by don h View Post
over the last month or so i reduced my stroke count (in super slow swimming), first, from 13 to 10, then, in the space of three days, from 10 to 7. a few days ago, shinji asked what contributed to stroke reduction in my case.

first, a couple of clarifications. i am pushing off from the side of the pool, not the bottom of the pool (as shinji does in his 12.5m superman glide on youtube). no kicking during the glide from pushoff, feet together with toes pointed. hand on top of hand during glide from pushoff (not straight ahead as in superman glide). "first pull" after pushoff (i happen to use my right hand for this) is not counted as a stroke. no kick on "first pull." beginning with "stroke number 1," i do 2bt kick. so there are seven kicks, one per stroke. i am getting about 11 yds. from pushoff and "first pull" combined. this leaves approximately 14 yds., or 42 ft, for seven strokes, about 6 ft. per stroke.

i believe the reduction from 13 to 10 can be attributed largely to (1) and (2) below, and the reduction from 10 to 7 can definitely be attributed to (3):

(1) i learned a faster gliding/skating position by experimenting with "first pull" after pushoff;
(2) i improved "rotational balance" (discussed below) in order to
(a) glide farther, and
(b) "set" myself more consistently each time to prepare for a kick that has more propulsion; and
(3) i had a blast experimenting with front quadrant swimming, both conceptually and in the water, to learn better "horizontal balance."

(1) "first pull" after pushoff. good swimmers swim parallel to the surface, from head to toe; and they maintain this fast position through "horizontal balance." as a more average swimmer, i started using the opportunity of the glide after pushoff, and the glide after "first pull," as a means to experience this fast position before it "dissipated" into something "uphill" after i started swimming. i started putting my lead hand straight ahead during "first pull" and the glide after "first pull," and gradually found myself rolling to about the same degree each time. this glide position was noticeably fast, and a lot of fun. this is now my position when swimming, slow or fast. at least on one side. i need to go through the same process of experimentation by doing "first pull" with the other hand.

(2) better "rotational balance." i interpret this term to mean rolling each time to optimal skating/gliding position (not too much, not too little)--and holding that position, without moving anything. without moving your hands, without kicking, without flaring your leg out wide, without wiggling your toes (just kidding about the toes). in addition to gliding better, i believe, from watching movies of terry and shinji, that if you can attain a moment when everything is "still" and in good position right before the kick, you will get more out of it.

(3) front quadrant swimming. hang an elbow in the air, about even with your ear. do this when you "recover" after "first pull," and when you recover after each stroke. you will glide forever, because, with your elbow hanging, it, your hand, arm, and that part of your shoulder and back which is out of the water are now heavy enough to tip you into a horizontal and fast position. these things are now heavy and actually weigh the same number of pounds they weigh on land. they weigh the same as on land, because they are no longer under the surface displacing water. after your glide, give these things back to the water. as you give them back to the water, be philosophical about it. terry says in his second dvd that it is easy to put your hand in the mailslot, but you must take care with the forearm. let's go one further. give them back to the water in ascending order of heaviness. first, the hand, then the forearm, then the upper arm, then shoulder and back. what happens next? no reason to worry, because shoulder and back on the other side of your body have already started to rise out of the water, and you may now take back from the water. let's go one further. if you do the under water finish like shinji told you to, you may take back in descending order of heaviness. first, shoulder and back, then upper arm, forearm, and hand. whoah, dear reader. this is starting to sound like church.

and that is how i, a burned out 60 yr old poverty lawyer, swam the pool in seven strokes.
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  #15  
Old 01-08-2010
dshen dshen is offline
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Default Inspired by your post, just did 7 strokes!

Don H,

I wanted to thank you for inspiring me this morning to try and hit 7 strokes and actually did it.

I have been with Coach Shinji since late summer last year and TI has improved my swimming exponentially more in the last 6 months than in the years of swimming since 2002.

Before this morning, I hit 9 SPL for 25y and thought that was pretty good. But today I was pleasantly surprised to know that I could hit 7! My full analysis and comments are here in my blog post as well as my other posts about my experience with TI and Coach Shinji.

The one thing I wanted to make two comments about, was your comment about hanging your recovery hand in the air in cocked position and gliding.

First, given my body shape, etc., when I did that I actually would tip so far forward due to my body position plus the weight of my arm that I would sink, head first and the sometimes my whole body! This was bad because now I couldn't use gravity to drop the arm; it was restricted by being half sunk in water! Also, it caused me to bounce up and down because I would be deep between strokes, and then rise during a stroke. BAD!

I found that I actually had to tip my head up slightly which would in normal circumstances drop my hips, but now counterbalanced my super heavy arm hanging up there for a longer period of time. This allowed me to stay on top of the water which improved both bad things that happened, mentioned previously. Not saying this would work for everyone since everybody's body shape is different, but it was an interesting slight adjustment which helped my glide position.

Second, my friends and I all complain that efficiency training feels not like real swimming and that it is cheating to just glide for so long in order to lower your SPL. I have come to believe that it is actually not cheating, but actually a valid practice. However, I do think that a potentially more valuable practice is to not just glide with your hand up in the air like that and not moving, but to just swim super slow and have your hand in the same motion as normal swimming, but just so slow that it allows you to glide longer. This felt more comfortable, and also felt like better practice because I could imprint a good cyclical swimming motion and just speed it up with higher tempo later.

But in any case, thanks again for your insightful post and I have to try for 6 next time!

...And that's how a burned out 44 year old internet designer, swam the pool in 7 strokes (LOL!).
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  #16  
Old 01-09-2010
don h don h is offline
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Default 7 stroke swim

dshen,

thank you for your nice comments. i hadn't done this "exercise" in about a year, but did it a couple of times this week. maybe i'll make a little movie of the 7 stroke swim.

don h
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  #17  
Old 01-09-2010
dshen dshen is offline
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Default re: 7 stroke movie

YES! definitely want to see that!
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