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  #1  
Old 07-09-2012
swimust swimust is offline
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Default focus on acceleration not on shoulders

really sorry with all my posts. back to sanity today, when I started focusing only on acceleration and totally ignored shoulders position during the acceleration phase.
The acceleration defines the shoulders position and not the other way around as I did lately!
I am sane again. What made me focus on shoulders work before the acceleration? I'll never know. Too hard to find the traces..
Self respect shattered to pieces but my swimming is improving in an alarming rate... :)
The mess in my head is clearing fast.

P.S. - little note to me: accelerate against the chest area of the pulling side. thanks
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Last edited by swimust : 07-09-2012 at 09:27 AM.
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  #2  
Old 07-09-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swimust View Post
really sorry with all my posts. back to sanity today, when I started focusing only on acceleration and totally ignored shoulders position during the acceleration phase.
The acceleration defines the shoulders position and not the other way around as I did lately!
I am sane again. What made me focus on shoulders work before the acceleration? I'll never know. Too hard to find the traces..
Self respect shattered to pieces but my swimming is improving in an alarming rate... :)
The mess in my head is clearing fast.

P.S. - little note to me: accelerate against the chest area of the pulling side. thanks
It's always only the one thing. Why can't it be many things that make a pretty stroke? Should I child's self respect be shattered when the learn to read the world "apple" when previously they only knew the letter "A"? How else is one to learn?
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  #3  
Old 07-10-2012
swimust swimust is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
It's always only the one thing. Why can't it be many things that make a pretty stroke? Should I child's self respect be shattered when the learn to read the world "apple" when previously they only knew the letter "A"? How else is one to learn?
For me its always "one thing". Moi thinks that many parts are intuitive once you get the main idea. One wrong understanding can lead to the ridiculous events that I went through. All is good now :)
I.E. - Holding water with forearm comes naturally once you understand that the stroke leads and shapes the body position and not the other way around. I was committing this cardinal sin until yesterday because of a big confusion. I was rotating shoulders before starting the stroke! All is good now :)
We all have our ways to learn, especially those crazy people trying to learn to swim from the Internet without anyone putting them in their place with an eye to eye frontal meeting... ;)
Imagine if I was meeting all those people telling me I have no chance to swim the Shinji style.. Then I would not have a real chance under the social pressure and influence. Actually I met them and thank god I ignored them!

P.S. - I read Suzanne's reply again after 10 minutes and I am not sure that I replied her. I am just mumbling as usual...
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Last edited by swimust : 07-10-2012 at 08:03 AM.
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  #4  
Old 07-10-2012
swimust swimust is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
Should I child's self respect be shattered when the learn to read the world "apple" when previously they only knew the letter "A"? How else is one to learn?
If that said child was spelling "Upples" for two years to find out he was spelling wrong then you know the rest... :) :) - I am just having a bit of fun. I am bit too touchy on the web... Have a nice day
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  #5  
Old 07-10-2012
kalinma kalinma is offline
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Originally Posted by swimust View Post
today, when I started focusing only on acceleration and totally ignored shoulders position during the acceleration phase.
The acceleration defines the shoulders position and not the other way around as I did lately!
Could someone please define the term "acceleration" as it relates to swimming technique? It would really be helpful to have a terminology page on this site.

Thank you.
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  #6  
Old 07-10-2012
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Possibly I should keep my big mouth shut and not try to put words in swimust's mouth but I think he means the acceleration of the stroking hand and arm when the hand and forearm have got into position for the catch. Obviously the hand is the part that moves fastest but as I understand the TI approach you should not be consciously trying to make the hand move fast - it should be a consequence of the whole body movement.

Personally, I frequently do consciously try to make the hand move fast, though. One has to compare different sensations, I think. Whatever I do, I seem to swim pretty slow, but still I had a 50m PB this year, although a very slow one. Other people of my age swim nearly twice as fast, but ultimately we are all swimming against ourselves.
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Old 07-11-2012
swimust swimust is offline
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Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
Possibly I should keep my big mouth shut and not try to put words in swimust's mouth but I think he means the acceleration of the stroking hand and arm when the hand and forearm have got into position for the catch. Obviously the hand is the part that moves fastest but as I understand the TI approach you should not be consciously trying to make the hand move fast - it should be a consequence of the whole body movement.

Personally, I frequently do consciously try to make the hand move fast, though. One has to compare different sensations, I think. Whatever I do, I seem to swim pretty slow, but still I had a 50m PB this year, although a very slow one. Other people of my age swim nearly twice as fast, but ultimately we are all swimming against ourselves.
Correct except one thing. It should be this:
"...acceleration of the stroking hand and arm when the hand and forearm have got into position AFTER the catch."
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  #8  
Old 07-12-2012
kalinma kalinma is offline
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Sounds like acceleration is what most people call "pull."
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Old 07-12-2012
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kalinma View Post
Sounds like acceleration is what most people call "pull."
That's right but often people divide it into catch, pull, and push or outsweep, catch, downsweep and upsweep. The movement to the catch or outsweep is basically non-propulsive, the catch is when your hand is facing back and you can feel the pressure of the water, then, according to the theory, your hand needs to accelerate. In some versions of the theory you should pull all the way to the hip, but especially in sprinting the aim is often to cut the stroke short and quickly recover the arm to start a new stroke. I believe it was Japanese swimmers who first introduced this idea in the 'thirties but I think actually distance swimmers, who used a fast turnover style. There comes a point in the stroke when the hand and arm are no longer capable of providing useful propulsion and the best plan is to get back to the catch as quickly and easily as possible.

Watching underwater video of good swimmers is instructive, but transferring that to your own swimming is another matter.
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  #10  
Old 07-12-2012
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Acceleration comes from the momentum of recovery arm moving forward in front of lungs and dropping arm weight and body roll weight as a unit directing these forces forward through deep spearing arm; deep meaning hand/arm extended forward below the lungs and shoulder.

Cheers,

Stuart
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