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  #21  
Old 04-29-2018
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mushroomfloat View Post
Basically curling over and down to VW bumber but from directly from entry, the "glide" occurs on the initial curl over, the arm never pauses "in / curl / hook"
Yep, that sounds like what I'm feeling. Your crawling over the dune visualization didn't click for me, but we seem to be describing the same idea. Thanks!
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  #22  
Old 04-29-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Pamperin View Post
Yep, that sounds like what I'm feeling. Your crawling over the dune visualization didn't click for me, but we seem to be describing the same idea. Thanks!
A good demo here from Kara Lynn Joyce at 0:27

https://youtu.be/m771PnexCgI
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  #23  
Old 04-29-2018
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Use whatever language that works for the swimmer or you. I use a different language coaching swimming to an accountant, a pro cyclist, an age group sprinter, etc. But I yield more to Coach Kredich's language describing the action of the low-side arm as 'vaulting [your body] over the low-side arm with the weight and momentum of the high-side arm'. High and low-side arms are equal partners in forward locomotion.

As for Kara Lynn Early Vertical Arm demo - this is an intentional movement that will tear up most swimmers' shoulders, all shoulder driven and mostly out of position of leverage. Just because an Olympian does a move or position in a particular way, doesn't mean that's what the rest of us should do too. And it's unknown if she has any shoulder issues and physical therapy or not.

Allow the low side arm to grip and vaulting shape to happen naturally with rotation, not manipulate its position or path (i.e. S curve) since it will probably be wrong and do naughty things to injury prone/weak shoulders.

I've posted Coach Dave's video several times, this presents another opportunity. The transition and the natural position (or early catch happens) at rotation - and is in a position of leverage using the core/lats and very friendly to the shoulders. Select this link: High Elbow Catch In Front Quadrant Stroke

Happy Laps and long live your shoulders! :-)

Stu

Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 04-29-2018 at 06:13 PM.
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  #24  
Old 04-29-2018
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Pamperin View Post
Aha--another thought here.

Maybe what I am experiencing is that I am achieving the same SPL the RIGHT way now--so the speed and SPL are the same, but the perceived effort has gone down, just as Coach Stuart described. Lower SPL = lower perceived effort, which seems to be exactly what I'm describing.

I'd be very interested to hear from some TI coaches or other experienced swimmers about whether my theory of having been over-gliding (and now using a faster SR has cut that glide time, and reduced acceleration/deceleration) might explain my sudden improvement.
The huge drop in your frequency of breathing got me thinking, especially prompted by Coach Mat's posts (Mediterra Swim) where he talks about the right amount of relaxation, and the right amount of tension. Efficiency in timing will get you a long way, but getting rid of excess and unnecessary tension if you have it will really increase your efficiency. I know I carry a lot of unnecessary tension, but I'm only thinking about it now as I type. Way better to think about it in the pool, so I can address it.
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  #25  
Old 04-30-2018
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclim View Post
The huge drop in your frequency of breathing got me thinking, especially prompted by Coach Mat's posts (Mediterra Swim) where he talks about the right amount of relaxation, and the right amount of tension. Efficiency in timing will get you a long way, but getting rid of excess and unnecessary tension if you have it will really increase your efficiency. I know I carry a lot of unnecessary tension, but I'm only thinking about it now as I type. Way better to think about it in the pool, so I can address it.
sclim,

I've been following Coach Mat too--his blog is great analysis about specific behaviors, really good teaching. You may be right that I'm getting better at balancing relaxation and tension, and learning to turn off muscles when not using them.
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  #26  
Old 04-30-2018
fooboo fooboo is offline
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Some of arguments here I see a bit different.
I open leading armpit and set head close to it. I rotate a lot, almost to the
flank. 2bk. Try to recover with leading elbow, openning armpit on that side
and reaching in front. Lower arm stands still and waits recovering arm to go
into the water. That arm goes in front, makes the body to rorate. Then I do
start to bend an elbow and not pull, but make an anchor, over which I jump,
with firm vertical forearm.
With early vertical forearm I always felt an ache. With late never. I don't pull.
For recovery it looks like I throw one side of the body, with kick help. Latter
comes an anchor, not at the same time. If at the same time, does not work
for me. First recovery, then anchor.
I disagree that anchor comes naturally. Not for me. Have to prepare and do
it intentionally.
Best regards all.

Last edited by fooboo : 04-30-2018 at 08:26 AM.
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  #27  
Old 04-30-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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i take my lock on at 90 to my spear
So its vertical beneath my shoulder pointing to the bottom of the pool
then when the spear enters i vault over it.

I just tried coach daves method and its much higher alongside the head? about eye level?
I can see you can hold further out and thus hold more water / DPS but it seems a bit at the extreme.
I like the 10 degree trick though, and he is correct about waiting for something to be rolling you off,
I kimd of let the lead arm drop and upper arm moves just outside the shoulder line then as recovery comes up to shoulder height, my lowside arm locks into catch directly beneath the shoulder (hand below shoulder, elbow is out to the side)
So shoulders are level at this point with arms 90 degrees opposite each other, then i fire the spear.
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  #28  
Old 04-30-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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^
actually i dont, im still extended doing 10degree trick when recovery arm comes up and it all happens at the same time, catch spear rotate
like some sort of crazy corkscrew lol
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  #29  
Old 04-30-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Its bloody hard doing it in the kitchen, im out of the pool for a few more days as i've picked up some bug from the pool water on antibiotics, so i'm studying and doing dryland out of boredom.
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  #30  
Old 04-30-2018
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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When you recover, try this rehearsal "Skate to Catch". You can also do this vertical as dryland rehearsal too:
Skate to Catch

This is in the spirit and really inspired by Coach Dave's high elbow catch demo/video, allowing the catch to happen with rotation, or when rolling off one edge to the other, hinging at the elbow. This followed with freestyle closing hands or "fist drill" helps turn off the impulse to pull and start to feel pressure on the forearm as you gently press back upon the water.

Terry really liked this rehearsal/drill and wanted to incorporate into future content. Mandy and I use it frequently in lessons and workshops and really helps shape and feel the vaulting arm, creating thick water.

Stu
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