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  #1  
Old 11-17-2008
Scott Scott is offline
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Scott
Default relaxed kick to snapped 2-beat kick

Hello,
How to transform relaxed kick into snapped, coordinated 2-beat kick?
In drills, I use relaxed kick. In whole stroke, I want to use 2-beat kick.
But I don't how to let my legs do nothing between 2 kicks.

Appreciate any advice.
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  #2  
Old 11-17-2008
dwdvagamundo dwdvagamundo is offline
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Default 2 beat kick

Scott--

In 2 beat kick, the legs don't do "nothing"--they keep moving, but kick only in synchronization with body roll.

Read the series of articles on H2Oustonswims. org website entitled "Bottom Up Swimming" to learn how to fit the kicks in.
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  #3  
Old 11-17-2008
daveblt daveblt is offline
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I think what you are trying to say is that your legs still want to flutter in between kicks .What I try to do is to keep them relaxed , stretched out and even let them lightly touch each other until I'm ready to kick again. Having a sense of good balance definitely helps to keep the legs feel light and supported by the water.


Dave
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  #4  
Old 11-19-2008
terry terry is offline
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Default How to quiet "Busy Legs"

Daveblt and Scott
I believe Dave has made a good diagnosis of your kicking issue. Imbalance or instability will cause your legs to make involuntary stabilizing movements that get in the way of a coordinated and synchronized 2-Beat Kick.
I experienced that until about four years ago when I realized that, in my case, though my balance was good, I was laterally unstable. I corrected that instability and calmed my busy legs. In short order I experienced true coordination of the 2BK for the first time -- feeling my left foot drive at the same moment as my right hand speared, and vice versa. And not just synchronizing but feeling my leg drive add noticeable acceleration to my hand spear -- and my forward momentum.

In my case the solution came by way of wider tracks, a "draw-a-line" recovery and a higher elbow position and lighter forearm pressure on catch.

For most people the more fundamental issue will be balance -- relaxing into support. The starting point in this instance is likely the sequence of Superman Glide, and Superman Flutter to Skating to Stroking from Lessons 1 and 2 of Easy Freestyle described in two other threads on the Freestyle conference "Beginner - lose speed" and Balance Problems.

My solution was drawn from Lessons 3, 4 and 5.
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  #5  
Old 11-19-2008
Scott Scott is offline
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Scott
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Terry

why do "a higher elbow position and lighter forearm pressure on catch" help you on this?

what is "lighter" forearm pressure? how to achieve it?

I tried not to kick between 2 kicks and, as you said, my legs started to sink before long. The fluttered kicks are really due to my unstable position.
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  #6  
Old 11-22-2008
terry terry is offline
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Default Front Corners separate and Rear Corners close

Scott
If your legs are sinking then you'd want to retrace your steps to balance. Start each practice with several repeats of Superman Glide/Flutter. Then sequence SF to Skate Right and SF to Skate Left for several repeats. Finally sequence SF to Skate Right to a few (3 to 6) strokes in which you test your ability to feel as easily balanced in Skate as you did in SF and as balanced while stroking as you did in both.

How does higher elbows help minimize involuntary extra leg flutters? When you keep the "front corners" of your strokes more widely separated -- as high as possible and as far apart as possible -- you will be more stable and your legs will calm down. I coached a TI student who I saw at the SUNY pool while training today to think of keeping his "front corners" as separated as possible in order to keep his "rear corners" (the feet) as close as possible. Of course, he had already taken the practice time -- in drills and whole stroke -- to make his balance impeccable. This allowed him to shift his focus to higher elbows and better traction.

And lighter forearm pressure makes it easier to keep elbows near the surface. When you increase hand/forearm pressure at the beginning of the stroke, your elbows drop.

Of
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  #7  
Old 11-22-2008
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Shinjisan and I are identical in one way. We are the same height! Super High Efficiency SPL=9?!
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  #8  
Old 11-22-2008
roates roates is offline
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roates
Default ? Better balance allows moving to a higher clock position....?

From Terry's post,

'When you keep the "front corners" of your strokes more widely separated -- as high as possible and as far apart as possible -- you will be more stable and your legs will calm down."

Of[/quote]

I understand the thought of keeping to front corners, elsewhere called >position 11< to help stability like out riggers but not the phrase 'as high as possible'.

I'm a little confused, are you referring only to a high elbow or suggesting that the whole spearing arm is higher in the water. As you become more proficient you can allow it to come higher than your initial X/Y or clock position?

I have noticed on the occasions when I get a higher position in the water I am able to get a sneaky breath more easily, the lead arm is certainly not low in the water. This suggests to me a slightly shallower arm angle should be something to work towards when you become relaxed and as a consequence more balanced, streamlined.

Or am I on the wrong track here!

Roger
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  #9  
Old 11-22-2008
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CoachBobW CoachBobW is offline
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I think you're pretty much (no pun intended) "on track".
You've described the very thing that can cause some people to have trouble getting a breath. Too steep and too deep, will send you downwards, following your arm and hand. Down is also away from the surface and the comfortable breath.

Be careful here though. If a little higher is good, more isn't necessarily better and can be quite worse.
If the hand spears uphill, the hips are carried downwards taking the chin with them.
WORSE OF ALL LEVERAGING DOWNWARD ON THE WATER WITH A HAND THAT"S HIGHER THAN THE SHOULDER PLACES UNDUE STRAIN ON THE SHOULDER JOINT< SO TWO O"CLOCK IS ALWAYS WRONG
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  #10  
Old 11-22-2008
terry terry is offline
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Default Front Corners means Elbows

Roger
Sorry. I should've been a bit more expansive in my post. When I speak of front corners I mean to suggest you think of the elbows as your corners. Keep them high and wide -- well separated -- in order to keep your rear corners closer.

The hands will be hanging, nicely relaxed, at a lower position, with loosely separated fingers pointing down and palms back.
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