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  #1  
Old 10-16-2010
mossy mossy is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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mossy
Default speed without losing form

> hi all im a newby to this forum but have been training the ti way for at least
5 years now.the question i have is how to get faster without losing form in the
water im 46 years old train 4 times a week average 13 strokes per length in 25
mtr pool and my pb for a mile is 22.34 when worked out over 64 lengths its only
a case of removing 1 or 2 seconds per length i know but this is whats bugging me
do i use more kick and not a full stroke kick more power with weight training
any help on this one would be great
>
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2010
LennartLarsson LennartLarsson is offline
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It is "easy": Longer strokes more often! :-)

Seriously, that is what it is about. Get yourself a Tempo Trainer and start working on your stroke rate. I am trying my best to do that and it is not easy, i.e. to increase your rate and keep your SPL. By the way, 22.34 on a miles is impressive.

Good luck!

Lennart
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  #3  
Old 10-17-2010
terry terry is offline
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I'd support Lennart's advice for faster tempo, but I'd also say you probably don't need longer strokes at this time. Unless you are 6'3" or 1.9m tall, 13 SPL in a 25m pool is probably too difficult to maintain without slowing your tempo to possibly 1.3 or more seconds/stroke. In order to swim a 'brisk' pace without fatigue, or loss of efficiency, you probably need to get comfortable with a tempo of 1.1 sec/stroke or faster. As Lennart said, training with a Tempo Trainer is the way.

FYI, my 'sustained' SPL (what I can hold for 100m or longer repeats) in a 25m pool at even moderate paces is 15-16. I'm 6' tall and quite efficient.
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  #4  
Old 10-17-2010
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Mossy, I read your post earlier today and was wondering what the responses would be. Interesting in that 22:34 for a mile is in my humble opinion very fast. You are swimming at an elite pro triathlete pace. SPL of 13 if you can maintain is Great. Not to give any advice other than TT work is a little difficult to grasp.

I for one can not even approach your numbers and most likely never will, but I have been working on increasing SR as I had gotten into a rut with drilling and a very slow rate of !.5. Having worked through some technical problems I finally have a system I can hear. After visiting Coach Dave and his insisting that I pick up the pace even to the point of 1.2 SR not being that fast. I found many things work better at the faster rate so long as I can hold it together. Even more amazing is when I back off how easy and fluid I feel in the water. Today I had a great day in the pool as my SPL's were 15-16 for 25 yds. while focusing on left side breathing(my weak side) It has taken time to get coordination and busting the old neural patterns. Still a long way to go though. Good Luck and keep us posted
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  #5  
Old 10-17-2010
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CoachDave CoachDave is offline
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Default To follow up

I'm glad Gary got some new ideas from our time together. I think for most people, idle time in the stroke can become the devil's plaything. What I enjoyed most about watching Shinji go through my gauntlet of surprise tempos is that he is so present in each moment of his stroke that he knows how to avoid the habits that can sneak in at either end of the tempo spectrum. At fast rates, he didn't lose a patient hand or let the elbow go wild, but at the slower rates, he kept the flow going on his recover and held perfect balance at each and every moment.
Most have trouble with going outside their comfort zone because the rhythm breaks down and in rushed or slowed moments, old habits come back or sudden corrections are made that effect balance. Balance tempo adjustments with both time for seeking solutions through discovery and time for making an adjustment to tempo in order to adapt to a particular habit adjustment.

In going through another P90x workout with my youth swimmers the other day, I loved the moment where Tony Horton explained the difference between saying "I can't" and "I'm presently challenged to". When making tempo adjustments, embrace the challenge and see what works better and worse in a new tempo.
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  #6  
Old 10-17-2010
mossy mossy is offline
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hi terry as you can guess im a tall swimmer at 6ft 5" 16 stone and manage 13 spl with no problems i have been working on tempo by doing 15x100s at 1.30s with 30s recoveries i will certanly look into
getting a tempo trainer and let you know how i get on cheers
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  #7  
Old 10-17-2010
mossy mossy is offline
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Join Date: Oct 2010
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mossy
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as you can guess im a tall swimmer at 6ft 5" 16 stone and manage 13 spl with no problems i have been working on tempo by doing 15x100s at 1.30s with 30s recoveries i will certanly look into
getting a tempo trainer and let you know how i get on cheers
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  #8  
Old 10-17-2010
CoachRosita CoachRosita is offline
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Default Poisonous Pause and Tempo Trainer

I am 5 feet and 1.5 inches and 52 years old. I am not particularly athletic and have been swimming the TI method for two years. Two years ago it transformed my way of swimming during a weekend clinic, 1 year ago a reasonable two beat kick "came to me" during an open water clinic with Terry, and this August CoachDave diagnosed my poisonous pause. The open water clinic gave me the confidence to compete in a couple 2 -2.25 mile races. This most recent coaching with CoachDave, will help make me faster while maintaining form. Maintaining form for me means not exceeding 21 strokes for any length of a 25 yard pool. My main focal point during swimming recently has been to eliminate the poisonous pause (near my thigh)I have which until recently I did not know I had. Rather than swimming 10*100 yards on a two minute interval (swimming 1:50 and a ten second rest) with a tempo trainer on 1.10 my new work out on a good day is an interval of 1:55 (swimming 1:45 with a 10 second rest). Eliminating the poisonous pause allows me to have a higher stroke rate without much additional effort. There is evidence that as I improve my cardiovascular and neurological systems that I should be able to substantially improve (i.e. 1:40 interval). On a single 100 yard swim I can take the tempo trainer to 0.94 seconds per stroke while maintaining form. On a 50 yard swim the breaking point is 0.82. I intend to use swim golf as a tool to monitor both time and number of strokes. Thanks CoachDave for seeing that poisonous pause. I think sometimes I also get the DDEs (dreaded dropped elbow).

Last edited by CoachRosita : 10-17-2010 at 02:25 PM. Reason: forgot to mention - the 1:55 interval is with a 1.02 seconds per stroke on tempo trainer
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