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  #1  
Old 06-16-2015
fooboo fooboo is offline
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fooboo
Default arm entry angle

After a long time I did a backstroke on open water, without bigger shoulder pain.
Rotated more than previously. Still have some strange feeling, when I streighten
an arm to enter the water. At what angle an arm has to be inserted? Ideally, it
would be paralel to body lenght. I assume it was the very problem for rotator
caugh injury. At 1 hour? Two?
Originally, after insertion and hand slide, it makes 90 degree angle, elbow "down"
for a catch. Some TI change, ressembling freestyle still hand etc?
Best regards all.
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  #2  
Old 06-23-2015
CoachBobM CoachBobM is offline
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The first thing you want to master is the position of your core body. Simply put, your body should be rotating from your "sweet spot" on one side to your "sweet spot" on the other side and then back again.

To find your "head lead sweet spot" lean back in the water (with your hands resting against your thighs) until the water line reaches the sides of your goggles and your chin. Tilt your chin slightly toward your chest, and let your belly button rise to the surface. You should do no more than a very gentle kick. Once you are balancing comfortably in this position, rotate your shoulders about the axis of your spine just enough that a bit of arm is showing above the water from your shoulder down to your wrist. Your head should not rotate with your body as you do this. Instead, your nose should continue to point straight up.

Once you have found your "head lead sweet spot" on both sides, you can do a drill called "Active Balance Looking Up" in which you rotate back and forth between your "head lead sweet spot" on one side and your "head lead sweet spot" on the other side. In this drill, you are essentially doing backstroke without the arm movements.

Next, you need to master your "hand lead sweet spot": Start in your "head lead sweet spot" and then slip your lower arm forward until it is beside your ear, with your palm facing up. Note that your arm and hand should be in line with your shoulder on that side - not with the top of your head. Try this on both sides.

At this point, you are ready for one-arm backstroke. All you need to do is rotate from your "hand lead sweet spot" on one side to your "head lead sweet spot" on the other side (i.e., if you start with your hands resting on your thighs and your body rotated so that a bit of your left arm is showing above the water, you then raise your left arm and simultaneously rotate your body, ending with your left arm beside your ear and a bit of your right arm showing above the water). Then rotate back again, bringing your left arm under the water (the first half of this arm movement is something like the movement you do in arm wrestling; in the second half, you should feel like you are throwing water toward your feet).

Practice one-arm backstroke on both sides. You should feel, on each side, that your core body rotation is driving the movement of your arm.

To progress to full stroke backstroke, you simply combine the two one-arm movements, going from head lead to hand lead on one side while you are going from hand lead to head lead on the other side. You should feel, once again, that it is your core body rotation that is driving the motion of your arms.

If you are concerned about whether the movement of your arms will agitate an existing rotator cuff injury, I would suggest that you try practicing the one-arm movements on dry land in a standing position. If you can move each arm without pain while standing on dry land, you should be able to move it in the same way when you are in the water.


Bob
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  #3  
Old 06-23-2015
fooboo fooboo is offline
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fooboo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachBobM View Post
The first thing you want to master is the position of your core body.
Done.
Quote:
Simply put, your body should be rotating from your "sweet spot" on one side to your "sweet spot" on the other side and then back again.
Done.
Quote:
rotate your shoulders about the axis of your spine just enough that a bit of arm is showing above the water from your shoulder down to your wrist. Your head should not rotate with your body as you do this.
Done. I rotate whole body.
Quote:
slip your lower arm forward until it is beside your ear, with your palm facing up.
Hm! I regarded palm should point down, when an arm is leading. Then to start
catch, making right angle at the elbow. I am on that very side, during my arm lead.
Quote:
All you need to do is rotate from your "hand lead sweet spot" on one side to your "head lead sweet spot" on the other side
Indeed. Description could not be more clear.
Quote:
You should feel, on each side, that your core body rotation is driving the movement of your arm.
Outdoors my perception of the speed is not as good as on the pool. I just
cannot practice on the pool, due to other swimmers, who tend to be neglecting
any security measures.
My very problem is rotator cuff pain. I made somethig wrong time ago and
it waits me in any occasion. Here is what I do: on the ie left side, I start to
recover, straight arm, hand neutral. How it goes, I rotate opposite. When I
approach the surface, I turn hand to lead with pinky and the body is on the
right side. There it starts. An arm should strike, extended, palm down and comes
the pain. How I prepare for another stroke, I should grab the water and I do it
with angled arm, elbow pointing down. Anchor and flap at the end. Extending
part makes me regret the whole thing.
I do 2bk, but it might be less than needed.
Quote:
If you can move each arm without pain while standing on dry land, you should be able to move it in the same way when you are in the water.
Done. I added few exerts to strenghten a shoulder. Push-ups, motions in all
directions... Going this morning to see how it feels.
I appreciate your answer very much. Hope you will advise me, if I encounter
another problem.
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  #4  
Old 06-25-2015
CoachBobM CoachBobM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fooboo View Post
Hm! I regarded palm should point down, when an arm is leading. Then to start catch, making right angle at the elbow. I am on that very side, during my arm lead.
I'm still trying to envision how you could be on your back, with your arm beside your ear, and have the palm of that hand pointing down (i.e., toward the bottom of the pool). Having your palm facing up (i.e., toward the ceiling or sky) is simply the more natural position.

What happens when I begin my catch is: The palm of my leading hand rotates toward the side of the pool (i.e., so that my pinky finger is the lowest finger) and by the time I begin the first ("arm wrestling") part of the arm stroke, the palm of my leading hand is nearly vertical, so that the arm wrestling movement is pushing water toward my feet.


Bob
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  #5  
Old 06-26-2015
fooboo fooboo is offline
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fooboo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachBobM View Post
I'm still trying to envision how you could be on your back, with your arm beside your ear, and have the palm of that hand pointing down (i.e., toward the bottom of the pool).
In fact, you are on your side. Right? That position is hard to me,
shoulder suffers.
Quote:
What happens when I begin my catch is: The palm of my leading hand rotates toward the side of the pool
Sounds reasonable. I have that position, when I start to make
an anchor, with elbow bent at 90 degrees. It faces end of the pool.
I will try to correct hand position and see if it suits me. The weather
is not proper for outdoor swimming at the time. Have to wait.
Best regards.
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  #6  
Old 07-05-2015
fooboo fooboo is offline
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fooboo
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After a long period of bad weather, I was able to go and swim
outdoors. No shoulder pain.
I paid attention to the hand, regarding previous posts. Recovery
starts on i.e. left side, and goes straight and the body rotates as
it does. Hand inserts into the water with pinky first. Body rota-
tes all along to the right side and right arm strikes forward. I
am on the side, with palm facing down. I checked that, since we
mentioned that position. I'm positive, it is down. When the oppo-
site arm starts recovery, that right arm angles in the elbow, hand
takes a position to look back and anchor.
Have to say that I did not swim backstroke for a time, due to
shoulder injury. Further, I changed the way I rotate and implemen-
ted TI parts.
Best regards.
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