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  #1  
Old 09-23-2012
smat smat is offline
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Someone suggested on the blog that i should try another coach as nearly 2 years hard work and i feel no reward.... so i started searching. TI talks about altruism and kaizan , but why are there prices unbelievably high. The two do not marry.
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  #2  
Old 09-23-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smat View Post
Someone suggested on the blog that i should try another coach as nearly 2 years hard work and i feel no reward.... so i started searching. TI talks about altruism and kaizan , but why are there prices unbelievably high. The two do not marry.
And what are these prices like?
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  #3  
Old 09-24-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Originally Posted by CharlesCouturier View Post
And what are these prices like?
How much should a sport's coach charge?

Electricians and plumbers in the uk charge anything from 20-100 pounds an hour depending on geography and qualification.

Mechanics with businesses and specialist equipment charge 80-200 pounds an hour.

So I would expect a professional swim coach to charge me something similar depending on qualification, experience and whether or not they had invested in their own facilities (e.g outlet, endless pool, video tape feedback etc).
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  #4  
Old 09-24-2012
smat smat is offline
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Proffesional firefighter 2 years training. 11 pound an hour. Saw backdraught but all i got was overdraught, but lots of job satisfaction. Will just have to save hard for more lessons. You are right - all TI coaches are about 80-90 pound an hour. Wrong job i suppose. Thanks
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  #5  
Old 09-24-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Originally Posted by smat View Post
Proffesional firefighter 2 years training. 11 pound an hour. Saw backdraught but all i got was overdraught, but lots of job satisfaction. Will just have to save hard for more lessons. You are right - all TI coaches are about 80-90 pound an hour. Wrong job i suppose. Thanks
No right job for you i'm sure, honorable and no doubt mostly pleasurable too. IMO, key services in the UK are grossly undervalued but that's a political conversation not swimming.

Is the 80-90 pounds with endless pool and video? I wonder what the cost per firefighter is when you add in the fire engines, admin staff, buildings and heat light and power, sick pay and holiday pay.

Suggest you use your lessons to answer specific questions so that you lead the session rather than the coach. For me, this is the difference between a teacher and a coach. e.g. I would be happy to pay 90 pounds for a TI coach to help me fix my over rotation to breathe, but not to make me do an hour of kicking drills if I know I'm not going to apply it during training.

Also, everything is relative, my vocal coach charges 230 an hour, I used to think that was extortionate, now I just make sure he works for it and fast fire all my singing questions to him so that I get 6 hours of coaching in 1. (a-ha talent code teaching?)

Don't forget too to get some free feedback with a mobile phone video post on this site.
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  #6  
Old 09-24-2012
CoachGaryF CoachGaryF is offline
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As a young swim coach I used to pull kids aside after practice and help them with flip turns, butterfly technique, etc just because I wanted my team to be better. It never occurred to me that I was doing "private lessons." One day a parent, who was a board certified surgeon, told me, "You should be paid for what you do. I'm a surgeon, and my knowledge and experience is the only thing I have to sell." He was right--even at 19 years old I had something of value to offer. I didn't make 90 pounds an hour (try $12). But I learned to value my professional skills and realized I could offer something few others could.
I feel the same way about my teaching now, 30 years later. It is absolutely true that only a small portion of the overall population in the US can justify spending $90 an hour for private swim lessons. Hell, I don't buy $90 private lessons for things I'M interested in. But I offer other opportunities for those who can't afford 1-on-1 work: shared lessons, ongoing "masters" swims, 2-3 hour group video clinics. Maybe you can approach your TI coaches in the UK and see if they are open to different formats at different price points. For what it's worth, I give a very generous discount to active military, police, fire/rescue personnel. For them, being a better swimmer can mean the difference between a successful mission or saving someone's life. Or saving their own life. That's one place where my sense of altruism trumps a fat bottom line.

Gary
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  #7  
Old 09-24-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Are you based in the UK Gary? Have you done business with late Ian Smith?

Anyway, if you're based in the UK, it's good to know...
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  #8  
Old 09-24-2012
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Default Thoughts On Coaching

Being in the youth of my senior years much has been learned through the first sixty-five years of my life. I hope the following thoughts on coaching stimulate discussion.

Just what is coaching? Through life we have mentors, teachers, supervisors and the list goes on. They all can be considered coaches, as they shape or behavior and abilities, if not through active participation, passively. Some we just seem to click with for what ever reason.

Personally I've been absolutely blessed with some of the best mentors and teachers throughout my life. One lesson learned is one size does not fit all. On several occasions through my past career instances occurred when an individual I was training just was not grasping it. Time to change instructors and or technique if necessary. This was the point I tried to make in a previous point.

One of the most critical pieces of a coach/coached relationship is understanding. When one pays good money for coaching they need to make sure the coach knows what they want. The coach should then be capable of articulating just what needs to be done for achievement.

The goals must be realistic and it is important to understand ones own capabilities for a good and successful relationship. Swimming is unique in that our ability to understand those physical abilities in water is much different than on land. I must understand my neurological system is just not as efficient as others, it needs much work.

No amount of coaching is going to get me to a level of a dear friend who is just a natural. The key is finding that best fit for the individual. There is absolutely nothing wrong with changing coaches. In fact if there is that sense of frustration building in a student, a good coach should recognize it and discuss possible solutions.

Though the last five years I have received coaching from and observed many different TI coaches. One thing being certain, they all are different in their teaching styles. Some are much better at instructing new students, Helenita is wonderful in this capacity. Others work better with the more advanced and stress different focal points for reinforcement of technique.

There is an instructors code of communication with students, especially pay for, choose your critiques carefully. Often times this just does not work and in fact is a waste of time. In fact it leads to false sense of improvement among students. When I have a coach, it is put right out there. "Don't give me any of this cushy fussy stuff, if I suck tell me because I most likely know it anyway." This is also reinforced throughout the relationship. The other side of that coin is I have no problem questioning a coaches advice. Nothing wron with, why.

The cost for professional coaching is substantial. Work around it until one is to that point where person to person is warranted. The cost of a good underwater video camera is less than $200 US dollars. The word UNDERWATER must be stressed. If a true picture of ones swim stroke is to be reviewed it must be from underwater. Kind of like that duck analogy, nice and smooth on the surface, paddling like hell below.

Post the videos on this forum for review, lets not forget the great coaches and fellow TI'ers, many more skilled than certified coaches on this site who are willing to help, free too. Find a pool buddy who can observe you in the pool, even if it is the guard. Just ask to observe that one piece of your stroke you are focusing on, be it head lift, streamline, extension....

I closing I would like to extend my heartfelt thanks and appreciation to all those coaches who have worked with me through the years and more importantly to those who are active participants of this forum.

Swim Silent and Be Well
Westy
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  #9  
Old 09-24-2012
CoachGaryF CoachGaryF is offline
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Charles,
I live in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I should probably come up with a snappy signature here with titles and links to my website and stuff! (-;
Gary
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  #10  
Old 09-24-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Oh I see, and you were referring to the UK probably because the OP lives there. Now I understand (I'm a little slow some times).

I really don't know who picked up on Ian Smith's business in the UK. He used to be very popular there. He'd run a business out of a Swim Shack or something... Maybe Terry would know though...
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