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  #1  
Old 08-30-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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andyinnorway
Default TI Running

I have agreed to run past the Queen's bedroom next year in the Olympic distance Windsor Triathlon June 2013.

Having not run for 20 years and only a brief bit of biking through the woods a few years ago its going to be a great challenge.

I am signed up with 6 others from College days that include former professional footballers, my swimming mates and an army captain. In other words an open field for me to try and finish first, but on paper all potentially fit/fast people.

After two weeks my cycling is making progress, I am working on learning how to spin and hold my cadence up at 90+ and mixing that with a bit of interval strength training (heavy gear 60SPM 3-5minutes keeping still in the saddle). My speed is going up and I feel more able to attack my local course each session.

My thoughts on the run, however, is less straightforward as I am a real novice and so I wonder what a TI approach to this would be? (I have watched the Chi Running DVD as I know this is often referenced).

My TI instinct would be to teach my body to have a long easy stride whilst holding a cadence of 80+, by using interval training mixed with some 'base' building runs to increase running specific endurance.

My swimming fitness means I can already run a 10K but its around 65 minutes and if I try intervals I guess I can do 5x1km in 5.00 with 2 minutes rest in between.

Any coaching advise or set suggestions from you experienced tri people would be great. Thanks.

I have time and commitment for 10-12 sessions a week but need some easy ones for the first few weeks on double up days.

If I want to finish ahead of the others then I estimate I need a sub 2.40 finish time (30-80-50) or better.
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Old 08-30-2012
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi Andy

I think Chi Running is as near to TI running as you can get, and it has the stamp of approval of Terry himself. I bought the book last year when I decided to take part in the Aquathlon run by the local triathlon club. The race consisted of a 400 swim in a pool ( 4 x 100m, each swum in a different lane) and then a 5k run, about half of which I walked using the old Baden Powell scout's pace or something similar. I came second (of two) in my super vet age group, the winner being an accomplished marathon runner and about ten years younger. The age groups are quite wide in triathlon, it seems. I also bought Chi Walking, but concluded that there wasn't much wrong with my walking technique. I still can't run worth a damn but I intend to enter for the Aquathlon again this year.

My bike is a rusty heap that hasn't been ridden for thirty years or so. I keep thinking of buying a modern job but the roads are not very safe round here - narrow and twisty and populated by lunatics.
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Old 08-30-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
Hi Andy

I think Chi Running is as near to TI running as you can get, and it has the stamp of approval of Terry himself. I bought the book last year when I decided to take part in the Aquathlon run by the local triathlon club. The race consisted of a 400 swim in a pool ( 4 x 100m, each swum in a different lane) and then a 5k run, about half of which I walked using the old Baden Powell scout's pace or something similar. I came second (of two) in my super vet age group, the winner being an accomplished marathon runner and about ten years younger. The age groups are quite wide in triathlon, it seems. I also bought Chi Walking, but concluded that there wasn't much wrong with my walking technique. I still can't run worth a damn but I intend to enter for the Aquathlon again this year.

My bike is a rusty heap that hasn't been ridden for thirty years or so. I keep thinking of buying a modern job but the roads are not very safe round here - narrow and twisty and populated by lunatics.
Roads are very scary these days, My town in Norway has full cycle lane coverage but we have to give way to road traffic at crossings which isn't always easy in spd's. Still yesterday I did 30K half on the road and half on the cycle paths and was only overtaken by 3 vehicles which is a blessing compared to the UK.
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Old 08-30-2012
CoachPaulB CoachPaulB is offline
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Default Chi Running

Hello Andy,
I can't say enough about Chi running. Ive turned so many of my students on to it and they are all giving me positive feedback. I train beginner and intermediate triathletes.
Like TI, Chi running technique is not a "flu shot" for fixing your running. When one uses the focal points recommended for proper column alignment the results come rather quickly I have found. Engaging the core on land as opposed to in the water is relatively easy. You should keep your stride distance short like recommended in the book. Find the sweet spot or "zone" and establish your base distance,one that you are comfortable running at a certain speed. HR monitor is always good. 75% effort. Stop running when you lose your composure i.e., arms flail, gate wobbles etc. Once you can get to a 2 or 3 mile run three times a week and feel comfortable then I would recommend you start speed work once a week. Warm up 2 miles then walk a quarter mile. When heart rate shows recovery, fast run 1/8m and jog 1/4 mile...repeat 4 times. At first, you may have to walk a little but always try to jog when you can. Much has been written on the subject of running intervals and I've barely scratched the surface but this should help you get started. As for the ride and run training, I would only start this when you have properly conditioned your legs and start very very slowly. Start with short rides. Warm up on flat ground and then keep a comfortable pace for 30min. The purpose of this, for the beginner, is to gently introduce your body to the transition from the bike to the run. Many excellent athletes can get injured at this phase because they underestimate the affect that the transition has on their muscles. This is the time that you are exploring and training your neuromuscular system. Only start to increase effort and distance when you have a high degree of familiarity with your base performance for the ride/run.
I hope this helps as a point in the right direction.
Im not sure if this dialogue is appropriate for this forum but if anyone has an issue please air it.
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Old 08-30-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Thanks Paul great pointers, will follow the Chi path and be patient. Will also take heed on the transition.

For me anything to do with mindful training has an association with TI?

Maybe we can have a non swimming section. TI inspired cooking, gardening, decorating. There are so many things in my life where the approaches I have taken with my swimming have improved my skills in other areas.
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  #6  
Old 08-30-2012
The Parrot The Parrot is offline
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Default Andy's Running

I think that is good advice but if Andy is coming to running virtually from nothing for some time I would suggest a different approach (accepting that in running there are at least as many different ways of coaching as there are in swimming. But over tens of thousands of miles I think I have seen what works for most club standard and above runners and know what worked for me).
From what I read on here there is nothing wrong with Andy's cardiovascular system, it's in excellent shape. BUT that means he may inadvertently try and do too much too soon in a different sport because he is not going to perceive it as a struggle. As we all know, training is just so specific for particular sports. Andy might benefit from following the policy that I and other competent runners used when recovering from overuse injuries or illness. We would go out and start by walking 8 minutes and running 2, steadily NOT fast and certainly not as fast as when interval training. When that was possible without exceeding more than say 65% of pulse rate for the running period, increase the running time by a minute and repeat the exercise. DON'T change the pace. If the pulse rate goes too high, either go back to what was comfortable or stay at the same level until your body adapts. Continue doing this until you are spending as many minutes running as walking. Then reduce the walking breaks by a minute at a time until you can run freely over the country and lanes at a 'conversational' pace (and yes, I know that what is conversational for one will not be for another, its Andy we are talking about).

What matters at this stage of conditioning is 'time on your feet'. Your body has to make many changes/adaptations, cardiovascular, specific muscle groups, connective tissue, and even bone density - this last especially for swimmers. These things take time. Think of it as going out to play not training and you have TI thinking on legs. It is unrealistic to spend years not doing something and then expect to be able to bludgeon your body into becoming competent in a matter of weeks. With someone as fit as Andy you might get away with it but perhaps not. Training long term is a building up process not a breaking down one; building a sound base is essential. Speed, hill running, track sessions are way down the road and if too early will almost guarantee injury or at least loss of interest. It has taken TI to show me that this is also the case in swimming when I should have known better. Its paying dividends now.

I think this may also relate indirectly to Richard's running and walking regime. I have raced a hundred miles running but if I had to cover a hundred miles on foot now that's how I would have to do it - I'm old!!

Keep us posted as to what you decide Andy.

Martin T.
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  #7  
Old 08-30-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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I knew I'd get some good advice here. Thanks.

My first decision is to not push anything on the bike or run past 'always enjoyable' until I have a few months of training in the book.

I also think I'm quite good at listening to my body. I cancelled yesterday's evening run as I felt the morning's cycle had been enough for my legs and I am also willing to walk if my legs are asking even if my breath and heart feel calm.

A major concern was to not imprint bad habits, especially where stride length was concerned but that doesn't seem to be something I need to be over concerned about.
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  #8  
Old 08-31-2012
tab tab is offline
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Hi Andy, I'm not a runner, but have been looking into it. Everyone else in my family runs wife and three kid now into teens plus. I have spent this summer going bare foot, first time in my life I have had tan feet. My goal is to run bare foot. The idea is short quick cadence, not a long stride which can enable a heal strike, something to avoid with out shoes. Stride is very important. Long term barefoot runners warn to take it slow when getting started, but once up and going it is bliss.

My gardening is changing too, going from tilling to no till with heavy mulch.

I swam today, open water with a group of friends, about half an hour, it was a great finish to the day after picking blueberries all day. Lake is cooling off, going to be back in the pool in another month.
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Old 08-31-2012
The Parrot The Parrot is offline
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Default Andy's Running

May I put another point of view? I understand the difference in running barefoot but most of us are not going to do that on tarmac which may be the commonly available surface. That would be a quick route to injury.

I don't think Andy should worry about stride at all at the moment.The demands of what he is trying to do will determine his stride length. Whilst we can watch track runners matching long flowing strides over 1500 metres that will not be likely for most runners at club level. Think of marathon and ultra-distance runners - Ethiopians and people from the Kenyan Rift Valley, for example who scuttle along with a short economical stride, barely lifting their feet above the tarmac, and compare their stride with Usain Bolts! And because running involves hills and different wind direction, stride length will change to accommodate the needs at the time. Just run and relax, stride rate at this level will take care of itself - and change as running fitness develops.

Martin T.
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  #10  
Old 08-31-2012
tab tab is offline
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Paved surfaces are actually the most comfortable to run on. Gravel is the toughest. Woods trails are fun, too. In barefoot treading watching were you are stepping is the first agenda. Your feet will tell your body what it needs to do.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PsVvS...2&feature=plcp
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