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  #1  
Old 02-13-2009
AWP AWP is offline
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AWP
Default Revelations

As promised I'm posting video clips of my swimming for comments and constructive criticism (esp. from the TI Coaches). So let me have it. Patronizing will not be accepted : ) Well, maybe a small pat of encouragement won't hurt.
I've moved my discussion from the thread "Fluid Dynamics" mainly because I don't feel these vids are 'worthy' of coming under that heading... yet.
As luck would have it, after recently joining the Facebook craze, I've managed to reconnect with a former summer intern who had taken the only video of my swimming up until now. So through the 'magic' of the internet, presto! I have clips of my swimming past and present to analyze!! Great timing.

These first two were taken the first summer (July '06) after beginning to swim in Aug. '05. This outdoor pool is where it all began for me. A 30yd. length (90 ft/ 27.5m+-). I remember wanting to view a medium pace and a quicker pace. Horrible cross over : o

/Users/deannaperez/Desktop/Alan's Documents/Alan 1.MOV
/Users/deannaperez/Desktop/Alan's Documents/Alan 2.MOV

This next clip was a year later, same pool. Initially wanting to view a '100' free (really 120) I remember abruptly deciding to make the last two lengths breast and backstroke. I also recall not having practiced backstroke since that winter prior and it shows, ouch !

/Users/deannaperez/Desktop/Alan's Documents/P1020060.MOV

Also that day I attempted some fly after 'recently' practicing that stroke ( I like the little belch before push off, don't drink coffee before you swim ; ).

/Users/deannaperez/Desktop/Alan's Documents/P1020062.MOV

Incidentally, I've laid off fly practice for a bit as I'm working out a right shoulder issue possibly spurred on by my practice... or poor sleep posture or from building a closet and painting ( I'mwith you Shuumai). Regardless I think it has affected my catch posture, a little gun shy if you will. My only excuse for my most recent look at my stroke and my first view at what is happening underwater.
A bit of a disappointment at first but it has shown me many Kaizen opportunities and several aspects I can look to refine now that I can see what they are. Can you spot them all?

http://blip.tv/file/1758229/
http://blip.tv/file/1758231/
http://blip.tv/file/1758233/
http://blip.tv/file/1758240/
http://blip.tv/file/1758249/

As I said before this has energized me, giving me the same feeling I had after my first ah ha moment. Knowing that if I'm able to move myself through and feel as good as I do now, I can only get better! That notion is invigorating.
Thanks for your input.

P.S. If you're not able to view some please let me know.
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  #2  
Old 02-13-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AWP View Post
...building a closet and painting (I'm with you Shuumai).
And I'm with you since I have a closet to work on as well. heh

Playback of AP1 and AP4b were choppy for me, like stop-action. The others a good, especially since they are underwater shots.

Your pull is very straight-armed. It seems that you apply power early and blast through the stroke. It seems it would tire your shoulders out.
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  #3  
Old 02-13-2009
mjm mjm is offline
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Default The Dreaded Dropped Elbow

AWP:

I would say you have the "classic" dropped elbow. To read a description and a remedy go to this website and look for the article "In Search of the Dreaded Dropped Elbow"

http://www.h2oustonswims.org/

You also over rotate your shoulders. How can you tell? Look at your kick. Your feet splay wide apart when you over rotate. What to do? Wide tracks (feel as though your stroking hand lands outside of your shoulder), reach and extend, during the catch bend your elbow so it stays high--near the surface.

That being said, you still a nice, relaxed stroke. --mjm
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  #4  
Old 02-13-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjm View Post
AWP:

I would say you have the "classic" dropped elbow. To read a description and a remedy go to this website and look for the article "In Search of the Dreaded Dropped Elbow"

http://www.h2oustonswims.org/
Try this link: http://www.h2oustonswims.org/article...ped_elbow.html (I clicked on "Show Only This Frame" in Firefox to get a direct link.)

I don't know if that is actually a dropped elbow. Low elbow, yes, since the arm is straight. Check out the following images:







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  #5  
Old 02-13-2009
RadSwim RadSwim is offline
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Default

Alan-

Your video clips look a lot like mine did not so long ago. Mike's analysis is on target.

Many strengths:
1. very good streamlined push-off,
2. excellent body and head position,
3. a relaxed, comfortable and well-timed stroke
4. a well integrated stroke with very good use of core muscle power.
5. bilateral breathing, not lifting your head, well timed
6. nice recovery

You already know the faults:
1. dropped elbow and flexed wrist
2. rapid, not so effective catch and pull,
3. over-rotation with a resultant over-wide kick to compensate,
4. excessively long, slow stroke -- watch yourself throw water above the surface as your hand exits at mid-thigh level

I am all too familiar with all of these faults, since I had all of them as recently has last Summer. Learning early vertical forearm catch technique, moving your arms even wider, and eliminating the last 1/3 of your pull (earlier recovery) should improve your swimming -- eventually easier and faster once you get the hang of it.

Here a 3 drills that I have been using:

1. Drill the early vertical catch. The video clip that you posted in another thread shows the drill. With opposite arm forward, practice catching only (no pull), 3 or 4 times on the right, then 3 or 4 times on the left. Start recovery as soon as your fingers are pointing at the bottom. This results in an absurdly short stroke. Catch "insanely wide."

This drill will help you unlearn the dropped elbow catch. It will also build strength in your shoulder internal rotators. Be prepared to be sore.

2. Same drill but alternate side, swim by catching only (no pull) using a very short, very wide catch. Recover as soon as forearm is vertical -- should be when elbows are still above your head. Focus on "open armpit" and elbows just below the surface. I often use my snorkel for these 2 drills. The stroke is so short, that it is not easy to breath. Alternatively, you can take a longer stroke when you need to breath.

3. Add a pull, but make it uncomfortably short, so that you unlearn the overlong pull that you now have. Don't let you hand brush you thighs. A few focus points to try: Use whichever suits you --
a. Start your recovery as soon as your armpit has closed.
b. Start recovery when you feel you elbow unbend (extend)
c. Start recovery with your hand wide at waist level
d. Start recovery when your forearm ceases to be vertical

Those 3 drills did it.

I can't do what the swimmer in the pictures that shuumai posted does. He is able to catch with his body rotated -- my shoulders don't do that -- I have to have my chest flat. This lack of flexibility is the biggest barrier to learning EVF.

Practice in front of a mirror. Figure out how much body rotation away from the catch, if any, you can have. Then learn how to get your chest rotated to the correct position at the right time to form your catch. This is vital for EVF to work. Fortunately, TI's "catchup" timing is well-suited to learning EVF timing

I would add that the "over the barrel" metaphor does not work for me; my EVF feels nothing like reaching over a barrel

So, I had to learn to roll into my catch -- my shoulders are not flexible enough to catch from skating position -- so I had to learn new timing: kicking and rolling a little earlier so that my chest is almost flat as I catch. I am still working on this.

2 pool toys help me:

1. Finis Forearm Fulcrum -- encourages a straight wrist, making it harder to drop your elbow. This toy is not a paddle, but more of a figure-of-eight plastic wrist splint.
2. Finis Bolster Paddle -- after almost 4 years of observing the TI commandment against paddles, I have broken my vows. This small paddle has a wrist splint built in. It simply won't work without early vertical forearm technique. I would not recommend starting with this -- I didn't start using until 2 weeks ago, after I stopped getting sore from the EVF drills

In addition to the H2ouston Swims article by Emmett Hines that Mike referenced above, Karlyn Pipes-Neilsen's website, DVD, and attending one of her clinics was a big help in learning EVF.

http://www.aquaticedge.org/

Good luck.

RadSwim

Last edited by RadSwim : 02-13-2009 at 03:56 PM. Reason: typo
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  #6  
Old 02-13-2009
Rhoda Rhoda is offline
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Have you tried swimming with a closed fist, or with Fistgloves? That's a fairly easy way to improve your catch. You could try half a lap with closed fists, then open your hands for the second half.
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  #7  
Old 02-13-2009
daveblt daveblt is offline
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I don't see where the dropped elbow is all that noticeable .I thought that in the first video the head position may have been just a tad high.Looking good though.


Dave
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  #8  
Old 02-13-2009
madvet madvet is offline
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All the videos looked like stop-action. I am not familiar with the site you posted to. Would youtube work better?
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  #9  
Old 02-13-2009
AWP AWP is offline
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Default

I see that some of the videos did not take, I'll try to rectify and hopefully clear up the others. My apologies and thanks so far for the great responses.
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  #10  
Old 02-14-2009
shuumai shuumai is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madvet View Post
I am not familiar with the site you posted to. Would youtube work better?
Another way to post videos is to use a blog site like http://www.blogger.com/
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