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  #81  
Old 06-13-2018
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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I had not seen this demo from Terry at an open water camp; it seems very relevant to our discussion so far (just started watching it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pITBtglEUGk
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  #82  
Old 06-14-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Pamperin View Post
I had not seen this demo from Terry at an open water camp; it seems very relevant to our discussion so far (just started watching it):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pITBtglEUGk
This week i hae managed for the first time ever to get one arm catching out front as the other exits at the back, in true opposite arm timing, what i found is as the lead arm catches it litterally pulls the exiting arm up and over, a nice continious arm action, the arms just naturally recovered back to the front in that catch hook shape Terry is demonstrating in that video,

I've heard it called "meathook" freestyle in the past.
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  #83  
Old 06-14-2018
daveblt daveblt is offline
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Like you mentioned in a previous post 'Think of both arms connected through the shoulders and upper back', as of late I try to set the rhythm of my arms to start with core and shoulder movement, in other words by not thinking of the arms moving first , the arm itself stays relaxed to receive this rhythm .

Dave
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  #84  
Old 06-14-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by daveblt View Post
Like you mentioned in a previous post 'Think of both arms connected through the shoulders and upper back', as of late I try to set the rhythm of my arms to start with core and shoulder movement, in other words by not thinking of the arms moving first , the arm itself stays relaxed to receive this rhythm .

Dave
Yes! I was coming to the same conclusion in the pool last night, in order to turn the arms over from the torso they have to be relaxed and "along for the ride"
i think "extent to the elbow & not the hand" is also a good tip
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  #85  
Old 06-14-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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I'llstick this here as well as it shows kayak / opposite arm timing linked through the upperback
https://youtu.be/iOMF54wj2aA
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  #86  
Old 06-14-2018
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Mushroomfloat,

but you are aware, the demo is far away from TI? TI advocates coredriven strokes not shoulder-driven, and FQ-stroke not windmilling...

Best regards,
Werner
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  #87  
Old 06-14-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello Mushroomfloat,

but you are aware, the demo is far away from TI? TI advocates coredriven strokes not shoulder-driven, and FQ-stroke not windmilling...

Best regards,
Werner
Yes of course, but we are exploring different rotation/ catch / kick variants so i thought it might be useful to those wishing to experiment with different timing.

The fellow on the other thread has a specific goal to hold a stroke for 100m to achieve a fast time so i thought it was applicable, it is unlikley anyone ever won a 100m sprint with hip driven FQS timing.
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  #88  
Old 06-14-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Its a high connection in the upper back not a low connection, if you extend you lose the connection in the upper back (from 1:00)

https://youtu.be/MgMCLBctsGA
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  #89  
Old 06-14-2018
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello mushroomfloat,

Quote:
The fellow on the other thread has a specific goal to hold a stroke for 100m to achieve a fast time so i thought it was applicable, it is unlikley anyone ever won a 100m sprint with hip driven FQS timing.
But you know Alexander Popow? If I understood right, Terry saw him as "Inventor" of FQ, long and hip-driven stroke... in short distances.

Best regards,
Werner

PS: That does not mean, don't experiment with extreme timings. Remember some time ago a discussion with a netherland scientific (missing his name) had happen here. He stated windmilling as necessary for a most continues driving force after detailed measurement. But he worked with high-perfomance swimmers and did not examinate the disadvantage in balance and streamline. As everytime in swimming we have to weigh advantages and disadvantages to decide where and how we will work to reach our goals...
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  #90  
Old 06-14-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WFEGb View Post
Hello mushroomfloat,


But you know Alexander Popow? If I understood right, Terry saw him as "Inventor" of FQ, long and hip-driven stroke... in short distances.

Best regards,
Werner

PS: That does not mean, don't experiment with extreme timings. Remember some time ago a discussion with a netherland scientific (missing his name) had happen here. He stated windmilling as necessary for a most continues driving force after detailed measurement. But he worked with high-perfomance swimmers and did not examinate the disadvantage in balance and streamline. As everytime in swimming we have to weigh advantages and disadvantages to decide where and how we will work to reach our goals...
Granted i think Popov was hip driven but he was the king of Kayak timing so not really FQS
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