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  #1  
Old 04-17-2016
johynr]]] johynr]]] is offline
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Default Arm recovery

I would appreciate advice/suggestions on my arm recovery.

What I am specifically interested in is why, and how to correct the fact that my left arm in wholestoke seems to be very hand led - see video 1 "wholestroke", whilst in a static drill - see video 2 "static drill" it seems ok (to my eyes). The static drill seems to show that I have the flexibility in my shoulder but for some reason I cannot carry it though into wholestroke. Or have I got this wrong?

Video 1 - wholestroke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaIifyfxaJw

Video 2 - static drill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiWlYlqVv-w

I know there are other issues with my recovery (eg a enter too far in front of my head) but one thing at a time.

Thanks in advance.
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  #2  
Old 04-17-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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The videos are private, but you address a very common problem, just like crossing or almost crossing the midline.
A lot has to do with your basic place in the water and your basic posture.
You have to feel supported, relaxed and balanced to really move that arm over without disturbing the rest of the vessel.
On top of that, there is some flexibility involved.
The support under the upperbody can come from front to rear bodytone together with buoyancy, but most good swimmers als use the under water arm as support/propulsive driving paddle (dependant on the relative armtiming during the stroke.)
This extra support is lacking if the body is also overrotataing on a dropped elbow crossing the midline.
The dropped elbow is often linked with the hand lead recovery.
So a lot of cause and effects things that can spiral downward.
Watch how Phelps plays with his rotational balance and his extreme shoulder flexibility. By bringing his arm over even at the other side of the midline without causing any trouble in the movement of the underwaterarm.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zJSI0aoRfU

I think its best to try to bring that arm over from the elbow in slow motion from a floating starting point.
and see what happens to your balance.
In whole stroke there is so much going on, so you revert to old habits in no time.
Plenty of recovey improving drills in TI, so you have to find out where things go wrong in the progression.

Last edited by Zenturtle : 04-17-2016 at 07:39 PM.
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  #3  
Old 04-18-2016
johynr]]] johynr]]] is offline
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Just made the videos accessible.
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  #4  
Old 04-18-2016
Zenturtle Zenturtle is offline
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Doesnt look that bad.
Pull your left arm forward/sideways leaded by the shoulder and elbow a bit earlier and faster.

There is little differnce with the statc version, so maybe its more a flexibility issue
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  #5  
Old 04-18-2016
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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I agree with ZT--it doesn't look too bad.

One thing I've found useful to push the elbow lead recovery is to think of a string tied to the elbow. At the end of the stroke, the string pulls the elbow forward (not really up, just forward) while the arm stays limp. This helps activate the bigger muscles and keep the arm relaxed. I like to feel my hand (palm-up is very important) moving forward even before it leaves the water for a nice circular stroke.

Lately I've been imagining a wall just an inch or two in front of my head, and I try to make each elbow hit that imaginary wall before letting the hand come forward. You might play around with that in very slow practice (it takes lots of concentration at first) and see what it does for you.
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  #6  
Old 04-18-2016
dan.almasan@gmail.com
 
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I see two questions in one. The first one is how to improve the recovery. The second, why is there a difference between left an right. Most of us have this sort of problem: one weake side (one arm being doing worse, breathing on one side is more difficult, etc...). Part of that is the muscle development, but that cannot explain a different motion pattern ( at least not 100%). In my quest to improve my weak side, I read about trigger points.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myofascial_trigger_point

In principle, due to having an asymetric position when working with the computer (using the mouse with one hand only), always sleeping on the same side, etc... some sort of nodules develop (usually in the shoulder area). Their effect might be continous upperback/neck pain, pain only in some positions or decreased range of motion (a sort of protection mechanism of the body to avoid the painful positions). What I found useful to increase the range of motion of my weak side : ice cooling effect gels (they work only short term), self massage (http://athletestreatingathletes.com/...-introduction/) and myotherapy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myotherapy). Hope it helps, Dan
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  #7  
Old 04-21-2016
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johynr]]] View Post
I would appreciate advice/suggestions on my arm recovery.

What I am specifically interested in is why, and how to correct the fact that my left arm in wholestoke seems to be very hand led - see video 1 "wholestroke", whilst in a static drill - see video 2 "static drill" it seems ok (to my eyes). The static drill seems to show that I have the flexibility in my shoulder but for some reason I cannot carry it though into wholestroke. Or have I got this wrong?

Video 1 - wholestroke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaIifyfxaJw

Video 2 - static drill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XiWlYlqVv-w

I know there are other issues with my recovery (eg a enter too far in front of my head) but one thing at a time.

Thanks in advance.
Hi John,

The issue really isn't all that complicated and it's quite common. The good news is your recovery arm is mostly relaxed and your entry in front is slicing in, not laying flat.

The main problem is you are lifting elbow (first) above your back triggering a hand lead recovery. The reason why the elbow is lifting first is more human impulse and your're not extending arm at exit past hip. Your arm is bent 90 degs as you lift recovery arm - and hand exits last in front of hip. It should be behind the hip, getting a full release or extended arm which allows your recovery arm to swing wide and not lift from elbow first. See frames between 0:01 - 0:02 and 0:03 - 0:04. It looks as if someone is picking up your (relaxed) recovery arm from the elbow - puppet like. Again, this is very a common problem and not difficult to resolve.

A good whole stroke focal point (I think Tom mentioned eariler) is "palm up - release" at hip. Palm is facing up at recovery exit past hip. You can also rehearse full extension palm facing up past hip in right/left skate drill as well.

Good luck

Stuart

Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 04-21-2016 at 02:19 AM.
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  #8  
Old 04-21-2016
johynr]]] johynr]]] is offline
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Thanks all.

So if I extend my arm more and exit palm up this should make the recovery better?

Last edited by johynr]]] : 04-21-2016 at 10:18 AM.
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  #9  
Old 04-21-2016
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Yes. Extend and release recovery away from body. Momentum of the arm moving from low side (below surf) to high side (above surf) will carry it out of the water. Lifting elbow early, stunts recovery and its valuable momentum causing shoulder impingement and destabilizing your vessel below the surface.

Stuart
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  #10  
Old 04-21-2016
johynr]]] johynr]]] is offline
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Thanks Stuart. I'm off to the pool now to practice it.
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