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  #1  
Old 05-21-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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swimust
Default Recovery day

part the elbow, use the blade, stretch the blade... I did my Shinji research.
should be easy ;) it is easy on pc and dry land...
Looks a "straight forward deal" but we never know until I am in the water later today.
Anyway, I feel I am in a good place in my swim now :)
The "torso twist into weight shift tracks" revelation yesterday was HUGE!
So far its the biggest revelation I had in my learning. If its correct... I never know..
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Last edited by swimust : 05-21-2013 at 09:46 AM.
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Old 05-21-2013
rcrawf rcrawf is offline
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Swimust,
On recovery lead with your elbow not forarm. Forget weight shift, hand flick etc for now. Your comparison of your recovery to other swimmers has nothing to do with arm length and your other conclusions. The only thing you should be thinking about is as recovery arm leaves the water swing elbow out wide, paint the water with your knuckles, draw a straight line from hand exit point to hand enter, oh did I mention "elbow circle, ear hops, mail slot entry", rotate body just enough to allow knuckles to paint the water, keep elbow high and wide and get your elbows in front of your lungs, this will raise your hips, forget weight shift, a lot of that happens naturally. These are all Terry's tried and true coaching points, these are the "fundamentals" that will allow you to swim like Shinji and be a graceful and efficient swimmer with your own personal style. It's not easy to look or swim like Shinji, Terry or Sun Yang, work on one arm at a time, video with just one arm focus, freeze frame when elbow is at apex (highest point) compare to Shinji, Terry, or Anna-Karin. Ask Suzanne to post her "Swimming Recovery Technique-Pain Free shoulders" video, shows great visuals for swinging elbow wide. Hope this helps, please trust Terry's coaching points, put your trust in him, you will get to where you want to be if you perfect Terry's methodology much quicker than the path you are on, IMHO.
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Last edited by rcrawf : 05-21-2013 at 12:19 PM.
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Old 05-21-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrawf View Post
Swimust,
On recovery lead with your elbow not forarm. Forget weight shift, hand flick etc for now. Your comparison of your recovery to other swimmers has nothing to do with arm length and your other conclusions. The only thing you should be thinking about is as recovery arm leaves the water swing elbow out wide, paint the water with your knuckles, draw a straight line from hand exit point to hand enter, oh did I mention "elbow circle, ear hops, mail slot entry", rotate body just enough to allow knuckles to paint the water, keep elbow high and wide and get your elbows in front of your lungs, this will raise your hips, forget weight shift, a lot of that happens naturally. These are all Terry's tried and true coaching points, these are the "fundamentals" that will allow you to swim like Shinji and be a graceful and efficient swimmer with your own personal style. It's not easy to look or swim like Shinji, Terry or Sun Yang, work on one arm at a time, video with just one arm focus, freeze frame when elbow is at apex (highest point) compare to Shinji, Terry, or Anna-Karin. Ask Suzanne to post her "Swimming Recovery Technique-Pain Free shoulders" video, shows great visuals for swinging elbow wide. Hope this helps, please trust Terry's coaching points, put your trust in him, you will get to where you want to be if you perfect Terry's methodology much quicker than the path you are on, IMHO.
Thanks, all sounds good but my remarks are:
The weight shift phenomena I experienced yesterday maybe different than yours because the "Shinji torso twist" is technically different than the Terry "body rotation". So, for me its a crucial thing. The engine. Maybe I have invented another thing from my own imagination, its possible, but if it feels good then I am not changing.
I know what you mean in saying "just do weight shift and not focus on that". I was doing "just weight shift" until now with no results. Its meant to avoid using torso muscles and it works for me now. Its a bigger issue than you think, maybe I am wrong.
The recovery: I am sure I wasn't bad at that in the past before working on the engine, but with no engine there is nothing to recover, if you know what I mean... :)
The 3 focal points in my first line are the big ones and I will see how it goes.
I use shoulder muscles no doubt (forearm loose all the time), and I want to switch to shoulder blade, at least that. Optimistic... :)

Thanks again

P.S. - If I am correct with my understanding, then the recovery should be an easy thing to improve in comparison to finding the "torso twist". The "torso twist" is equal to "weight shift" for me at present. The recovery shouldn't require "aha" moments and new feelings, just repetition. I maybe wrong, I will see in the pool.
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Last edited by swimust : 05-21-2013 at 01:42 PM.
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Old 05-21-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrawf View Post
Swimust,
...Forget weight shift, hand flick etc for now..
I am not doing any hand flicks in my right arm anymore. I am cured thanks to the weight shift. It was the only thing that solved it.
So, my last insight is REALLY a big one.
Just watch my last video. There is no trace of the wild right arm swing into the air. Its solved only because of the weight shift track.
link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJvHhqNZEGE - my tempo is not slow. I am not slowing to control the flick! Its fixed.

I couldn't even work on my recovery because of this swing! recovery starts much earlier than when my swing ended.
So, I couldn't forget it even if I wanted to forget it...nasty :)
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Last edited by swimust : 05-21-2013 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 05-21-2013
rcrawf rcrawf is offline
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I don't think weight shift will help lift your elbow that much, it is just something you have to imprint many, many hours, don't lead with your for arm, lead with your elbow. I too TRY and use torso twist but not as critical for smooth stroke as other fundamentals!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZBci...ature=youtu.be
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Old 05-21-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcrawf View Post
I don't think weight shift will help lift your elbow that much, it is just something you have to imprint many, many hours, don't lead with your for arm, lead with your elbow. I too TRY and use torso twist but not as critical for smooth stroke as other fundamentals!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZBci...ature=youtu.be
you don't understand what I mean.
1) I do not use weight shift to do recovery! I use it to get body propulsion by twisting the torso with no effort. It has nothing to do with recovery.
Your description of recovery is good but you didn't get what I am doing.

2) The amount of torso twist is decided by my goal. Its not always the same angle.

3) My forearms are lose in recovery for the last year or two at least. :)
But, I am using shoulder muscles and its wrong. I want to use shoulder blade.
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Old 05-21-2013
cs10 cs10 is offline
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An applicable saying might be ; the ultra elites are often just a lot better at the basics.
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Old 05-21-2013
rcrawf rcrawf is offline
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Fine tune your shoulder blades scapular plane squeeze your shoulder blades together on lifting arm, whatever later... Just lead with a high elbow, the other details will come later, GET YOUR ELBOWS HIGH, I DON'T CARE HOW YOU DO IT FOR NOW And paint the water with your knuckles, just try it and video it. I think you will be pleasantly surprised with the anatomy that is engaged! Suzanne's video, please chime in Suzanne for some moral support.
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Old 05-21-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JeHQyqI7zq0

This isn't the video you are thinking of, I imagine, but I think this video from Suzanne has a lot of points that will be of interest and relevance to many of us.

I found it sort of by chance on youtube, the way one does if one is always looking for good stuff about swimming.
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Old 05-21-2013
Grant Grant is offline
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Good find Richard and great video Suzanne.
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