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  #1  
Old 05-15-2013
caronis caronis is offline
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caronis
Default Underwater-Backward Dolphin Kick??

I am wanting to improve my underwater dolphin kick and I want to mention some things that I have heard about it. Please correct me if what I've heard is wrong!....
I've heard that there was a backstroke swimmer who was setting world records by swimming most of the distance doing the Underwater-Backward Dolphin Kick?....and that new rules had to be implemented to limit how far swimmers go underwater before reaching the surface to stroke....
To me it seems that if this is true, then the name of the Freestyle stroke should be renamed the forward crawl because freestyle should mean that you can swim anyway you want.....
Is it true that this is basically the fastest way to swim?? Without actually taking a stroke and just holding your breath and undulating the whole way?
I can't swim very fast this way, but I would like to learn. Any possibility on creating a DVD or instruction on this specialty? It would seem to me that this is a very important skill that all the fastest swimmers seem to share.
I would love feedback on this!!
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  #2  
Old 05-15-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caronis View Post
I am wanting to improve my underwater dolphin kick and I want to mention some things that I have heard about it. Please correct me if what I've heard is wrong!....
I've heard that there was a backstroke swimmer who was setting world records by swimming most of the distance doing the Underwater-Backward Dolphin Kick?....and that new rules had to be implemented to limit how far swimmers go underwater before reaching the surface to stroke....
To me it seems that if this is true, then the name of the Freestyle stroke should be renamed the forward crawl because freestyle should mean that you can swim anyway you want.....
Is it true that this is basically the fastest way to swim?? Without actually taking a stroke and just holding your breath and undulating the whole way?
I can't swim very fast this way, but I would like to learn. Any possibility on creating a DVD or instruction on this specialty? It would seem to me that this is a very important skill that all the fastest swimmers seem to share.
I would love feedback on this!!
UDK is the "fifth stroke".

The master:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fJ2Wcj5P0c

And this one...you can actually see me sitting at the poolside here in the blue baseball cap (total immersion cap at that!)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7insTOmDlU
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle


Last edited by CoachSuzanne : 05-15-2013 at 06:13 AM.
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  #3  
Old 05-15-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi Caronis

The man given most credit for introducing the extended dolphin kick in backstroke was David Berkoff and it was known as the Berkoff blastoff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2oTlD...eature=mh_lolz

The commentator's attempt at Daichi Suzuki's first name is typically terrible.

The 15-meter rule was introduced to avoid races being swum mainly under the water.

The proper name for the stroke swum on the belly is crawl, variously known as front crawl (the usual term in Britain) and probably depending on nationality the Australian crawl or the American crawl. Johnny Weissmuller's famous book is called Swimming the American Crawl and is well worth a read if you can find a copy. The race is the Freestyle race and in principle you can swim any stroke you like and people often swim backstroke, butterfly or breaststroke in masters competitions, but in the Olympics (apart from the first few when some swam Trudgen) that has probably never happened because the crawl is the fastest stroke.

The original backstroke (or at least one of the original styles) was swum with both arms and a breaststroke kick and is known in Britain as the Old English Backstroke, but people soon found that an alternating action with a flutter kick was faster and so it came to be known as the back crawl or nowadays just backstroke, but the Old English lives on in masters swimming and some are faster with it than with back crawl.

There's a chap from Brazil on youtube who thinks he has invented a new stroke, but it's just Old English. I wrote to him to tell him that it has been described in many early books on swimming but he seems to prefer to think that it's all his own.
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Old 05-15-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Here's Hill Taylor showing how it could be done if the rules were changed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNb6yxFU9hk
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  #5  
Old 05-15-2013
caronis caronis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
Here's Hill Taylor showing how it could be done if the rules were changed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNb6yxFU9hk
This is unbelievable!!! This is what I'm talking about!

I notice that in comparison to Misty, this swimmer does not move his arms much at all....his chest moves just slightly more.....The undulating action seems mostly legs....I guess you have to view this as the power coming primarily from the core (hips), with the legs moving most of all.

I really do believe that this technique should be taught as "the 5th stroke"....In fact, I would bet that this technique separates the elite swimmers from the mediocre ones....even though this is more applicable to breast stroke and butterfly.

This reminds me of something that Terry learned a while back about the swimmers he was coaching....that they travelled faster in the beginning of their lap then when they actually began stroking...It demonstrates a very powerful principal....That in swimming sometimes less is more....If humans could breathe underwater, then I bet most humans would be swimming this way!
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Old 05-15-2013
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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What about this guy here...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=4d7ODkPCecc
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  #7  
Old 05-16-2013
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by caronis View Post
This is unbelievable!!! This is what I'm talking about!

I notice that in comparison to Misty, this swimmer does not move his arms much at all....his chest moves just slightly more.....The undulating action seems mostly legs....I guess you have to view this as the power coming primarily from the core (hips), with the legs moving most of all.

I really do believe that this technique should be taught as "the 5th stroke"....In fact, I would bet that this technique separates the elite swimmers from the mediocre ones....even though this is more applicable to breast stroke and butterfly.

This reminds me of something that Terry learned a while back about the swimmers he was coaching....that they travelled faster in the beginning of their lap then when they actually began stroking...It demonstrates a very powerful principal....That in swimming sometimes less is more....If humans could breathe underwater, then I bet most humans would be swimming this way!
Misty's stroke in each if these is a demo, she was one of tje fastest udk fly swimmers and she and her coach worked extensively on this even to the point of using food dye in the water and filming her above to find out how propulsion works in this "stroke". They even corresponded with the editors of i believe pipular mechanics to make sure their theories were plausible. she and her coache used tempo, distance per kick and pace i. her race strategy just as ti coaches use it in freestyle set planning.
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #8  
Old 05-16-2013
cs10 cs10 is offline
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Default The aquatic creatures version

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
Here's Hill Taylor showing how it could be done if the rules were changed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNb6yxFU9hk
Really beautiful to watch. So were Suzanne's Misty Hyman videos.
By coincidence I got home a little early and watched this and then headed out to sea on my 14' open ocean paddleboard for a hour and a half up wind then downwind paddle just before dark in a strong onshore front to wash off my work day. About 1k out I past a 5' long sea snake which stuck up it's head and followed me stopping when I did then following me again for 10 min swimming a beautiful horizontal version of Hill and Misty. I stopped again and it stared at me for a minuite before diving down in a beautiful vertical version.

Its really worth learning to do. I learned freestyle without doing any exercises other than superman glide just as a brain exercise. I "got away with it" only because I was in the rare position of having no bad habits because I hadn't swum for so long, but confident if I fell off a boat 10k out to sea I would have made it in. and from other things I have done having Charles prerequisets of proprioception, flexibility feel for water and neuromuscular specific adaption. I've always had a kaizen approach to things and appreciated beautiful movement. I was also only afraid of the water when it had chlorine in it.

I've started to learn butterfly and have the dvd. I'll go 100% opposite this time . The dolphin movement is the first exercise and I could happily do that for years.

I have a friend who had 5 blackbelts in different martial arts by his early 20's then become dissatisfied and spent 20 years in an intense study of the energy side. He showed me various spinal energy exercises that connect you with the 5 elements. Butterfly is the aquatic version of the water element exercise and the air element. Freestyle more like the fire. Breaststroke like earth. Backstroke a combination of earth and fire. The spirit element exercise is a spinning like the whirling dervishes so if you're doing that you have an extreme problem with over rotation. Over all even a short swim of all the strokes reconnects you with nature and all the elements.
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  #9  
Old 05-29-2013
caronis caronis is offline
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caronis
Default Aqua Fins & Center-Mounted Snorkel?

Thanks everyone for the Thoughtful Replies!....I learned some things I hadn't known before....

I suppose that ,based on my brief research, the fastest underwater dolphin is not faster than the other strokes...with the exception for BACKSTROKE! Which is why it was such a distinct advantage for Berkoff....Please correct me if I'm wrong with this assumption.

I also found a great Youtube series by GoSwim for learning how to swim the underwater dolphin. I won't paste the link here, but I'm sure you can find it on Youtube if you're interested in it.

My question is if anyone here has tried the fins in the video series. They are Aqua Fins by Aqua Sphere....Even though TI is not in favor of fins, I am curious if they are worthwhile enough to use while learning the underwater dolphin kick? I have tried a Monofin in the past, but didn't like it.....These Aqua Fins are in the shape of a foot and I wonder if they would help coax me along in developing fine technique for the UDK.

Also....I am wondering if anyone can suggest a good snorkel for use just in the learning of the UDK, not the other strokes like Freestyle......I'm not sure if these snorkels that have a center-mount and curl back towards the head would be good with my head going underwater most of the time.....Any suggestions on a snorkel that would be perfect for the learning the UDK?
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  #10  
Old 05-15-2013
caronis caronis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
The 15-meter rule was introduced to avoid races being swum mainly under the water.
I suppose this is necessary because it would be a huge risk to swimmers by pushing themselves to hold their breath for as long as possible....In Santa Cruz, about a month ago, a child became totally unconscious while practicing an underwater drill and his father watched on while he was being resuscitated on the pool deck.
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