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  #41  
Old 12-14-2017
Streak Streak is offline
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Understood Tom. I guess my 6x100 is some kind of interval training then.
I bet that if you did the sets in 49 seconds (45 + 10%) you would do a lot more repeats.

For me to be able to swim at your current pace which is the equivalent of 41s per 50 yards I would really be pushing it and would fail quickly. Conversely giving yourself a few seconds more to match my pace would be a walk in the park for you!!
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  #42  
Old 12-14-2017
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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All right, my third USRPT session this week--three days in a row--which is stepping up the intensity for me. I'm still seeing steady-ish improvement, so I guess I'm not overtrained yet!

21 repeats before first failure (+2 from yesterday)
25 repeats total (+3)

I notice I'm getting much less out of breath than when I started. Now my body gets tired from holding position and posture and balance, but breathing is fairly relaxed--mostly bilateral, breathing every third stroke.

SPL was consistently 16 on first lengths (a few 15's) and 18 on second length (a few 17's). I may be getting a shorter push-off because I feel the need to breathe sooner. I still feel like I'm really prioritizing low SR and SPL on the second 25m, but am probably losing form to some extent.

Still really working on controlling SR and SPL, and trusting those priorities to give me the speed I need. So far so good.
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  #43  
Old 12-14-2017
sclim sclim is offline
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Tom: What is your official "Green Zone range for your height?
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  #44  
Old 12-15-2017
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclim View Post
Tom: What is your official "Green Zone range for your height?
My wingspan is 189 cm (height 188 cm), which gives a 15-19 green zone on the usual chart.

From what I remember of Coach Stuart's comments on the forum here, he encourages a more personalized SPL zone that is based on each stroke being a certain percentage of a swimmer's height--can't remember exactly, but it works out to a lower SPL for me, like 16. Given how much success I've had following his suggestions, that's what I'm going for.

Funny--I spent a couple years (or more) of my early TI self-coaching at extremely low (for me) SPLs like 12-13. It wasn't until Terry encouraged me to "allow" myself extra strokes that I started swimming at 14 or 15 SPL, with an IMMEDIATE gain of easy speed. That's when I started to understand (a bit) the relationship between SPL, speed, and sustainability of effort.

I think my early focus on low SPL above all else was both misguided, but also incredibly useful in building some habits that continue to serve me well. Now I'm trying to make the shift to making sure those habits aren't holding me back, too!
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  #45  
Old 12-15-2017
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Hi Tom,

The Green Zone chart is the same principle, really the same math, 55%-70% stroke length (sl) to height, or sl/height. The chart is based on a 5m (or 5y) glide off the wall, so stroking 20m. Many swimmers have a longer glide off the wall, 7m glide = 18m stroked. Your height 188cm, 19 spl (in 20m) is 55% and 15spl is 70%.

Example:
16 spl (in 20m), 188cm height
SL = 20m/16spl = 1.25m or 125cm
Green Zone = 125cm/188cm = .66 or 66%

Take it a step further, derive pace given SL and tempo measured in strokes per minute or SPM: SL * SPM = pace in meters per minute

Example:
1.25 * 58spm = 72.5m per minute
100m pace = 100/72.5 = 1.38 minutes or 1:22.8
800m pace = 800/72.5 = 11.03 minutes or 11:01

The pace example is without turns, swimming a straight 100m, 800m, etc holding SL and tempo. I use this math to give my swimmers choices in SL, tempo and swim distance to discover what works for them and both short, mid and long distance potential.

Stuart
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  #46  
Old 12-15-2017
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
The Green Zone chart is the same principle, really the same math, 55%-70% stroke length (sl) to height, or sl/height. The chart is based on a 5m (or 5y) glide off the wall, so stroking 20m. Many swimmers have a longer glide off the wall, 7m glide = 18m stroked. Your height 188cm, 19 spl (in 20m) is 55% and 15spl is 70%.
Thanks for clarifying--that makes sense.

I'm sure I have a push-off longer than 5m, thought it gets closer to that as I get tired. So I suspect my 15 SPL is less than 70%.

Is there (or could there be) such a thing as a "green zone for your fastest swimming?" I suppose if there were, it might have to be completely individualized, not just to the person, but to the distance as well. Self-discovery from TT and SPL work rather than off a chart. Which, I guess, makes it an "optimal SPL" and there have been many threads about that here.
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  #47  
Old 12-16-2017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Pamperin View Post
Thanks for clarifying--that makes sense.

I'm sure I have a push-off longer than 5m, thought it gets closer to that as I get tired. So I suspect my 15 SPL is less than 70%.

Is there (or could there be) such a thing as a "green zone for your fastest swimming?" I suppose if there were, it might have to be completely individualized, not just to the person, but to the distance as well. Self-discovery from TT and SPL work rather than off a chart. Which, I guess, makes it an "optimal SPL" and there have been many threads about that here.
You're welcome Tom. If your glide off the wall is longer, the chart will be off, so just calculate your own stroke length, i.e. SL = 18m/16strokes = 1.13m or 113cm. Green zone 113cm/188cm = .60 or 60%, right in the green zone

Re: Green zone for fast swimming. I work with a 15/16yo sprinter, she swims at .60 tempo or 100spm. SL = 19y/17spl = 1.12y. She's 5'6" or 66" . Green zone 40.32"/66" = .61 or 61%. She just broke 50 secs (49.6) 100y free. If she drops .5 strokes on three lengths, she will break Simone Manual's 15/16yo record 100y free at 48.7 secs.

However - don't fear going outside of the "green zone", sprinting beyond your skill set, going below 55%. Just know when you are out of the zone, adapting to quick tempos and making new neural connections that ultimately support your current "green zone" SL at slightly faster tempo(s). Routinely challenge the neural system, do get too comfy in SL, tempo and distance.

Stuart
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  #48  
Old 12-16-2017
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
However - don't fear going outside of the "green zone", sprinting beyond your skill set, going below 55%. Just know when you are out of the zone, adapting to quick tempos and making new neural connections that ultimately support your current "green zone" SL at slightly faster tempo(s). Routinely challenge the neural system, do get too comfy in SL, tempo and distance.
Thanks for this--it's a reminder I seem to always need. I started practicing TI around 2005. It wasn't until 2011, at Terry's urging, that I allowed myself to swim at SPLs higher than 12-13! (Which brought new speed without effort immediately).

Definitely, I need to develop a higher SR if I'm serious about getting faster. Ideally, a higher SR but not a (much) higher SPL.
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  #49  
Old 12-16-2017
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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Yesterday I did my 4th USRPT day in a row--and in the process, I may have found my limit for now. Next week I'll try 4 hard days again, but do them 2 hard, 1 easy, 2 hard instead of 4 in a row and see how that goes.

Results:

13 repeats before first fail; not a "failure" in the usual sense--I skipped a repeat to reset form after I found myself thrashing around (-8 from day before)

18 successful repeats total (-7)

I'm not worried about the backtracking, though it's a pretty big jump back. I was actually quite happy that after my reset I was able to hold SPL (16-17) and form much better. Just didn't have the energy needed. Now I get two days off completely, which ought to provide some rest time for recovery and advancement!
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  #50  
Old 12-18-2017
Tom Pamperin Tom Pamperin is offline
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New USRPT session today (30 x 50m at :45 pace on 1:05) after two days of rest (no weight training, no swimming. Which led to good results:

19 successful repeats before first fail (+6 from last session, -2 from recent best)

27 repeats total (+9 from last session, +2 from recent best)

I was happy to see that I held 16 SPL on the first length every time. Hit 17-18 on the second length each time. Pace was :43-44 each time, but felt much slower and flowing, more relaxed (as was my intent and priority).

I got 6 repeats in a row after first fail compared to 3 in the past, which is encouraging. Concentrating on slow SR and kicking equally with both legs, with kick timed to a slow steady anchor/pull, is working well at controlling SPL. I am also feeling significantly less out of breath during the set even at the end, where I'm feeling I just get too tired (muscles) to maintain good form.

All right, still having fun. Tomorrow I may hit my 30 repeats--we'll see!
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