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  #21  
Old 12-11-2010
CoachBobM CoachBobM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splashingpat View Post
I find many that have been accustomed to swimming with the face mask and snorkel....another one of those
problems areas that have to be broken down
and learn how to breath without them!
For every stroke but backstroke, swimming and breathing are really, in some degree, distinct skills. Even if you've mastered minimizing drag and maximizing propulsion for stroking, there's still a need to do it for breathing. Fish don't need to worry about that, but we humans do.

A snorkel allows a swimmer to practice stroking without worrying about breathing, and that may be useful at a particular point in a swimmer's development. (We accomplish the same thing in TI by having swimmers roll to their sweet spot or onto their back to breathe, or even by having swimmers stand when they need to breathe.) But this really just postpones the inevitable need to develop breathing skills in the water. Sweet spot breathing, unlike snorkel breathing, does at least teach some of the skills that will ultimately be needed for regular breathing.

Two good rules to keep in mind for any training tool are:
1) Don't use a training tool without knowing why you're using it.
2) Don't use a training tool all the time, or even for an entire practice.

These rules apply regardless of what training tool we're talking about: fistgloves, fins, snorkels, shoes. Drag suits seem to be quite popular nowadays for swim teams, but my main quarrel with them is that people who use them seem to use them all the time and, in my experience, never wear them for only part of a practice.


Bob
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  #22  
Old 12-11-2010
splashingpat splashingpat is offline
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splashingpat
Default why learn a stroke until you bob in & out of the water 10 times consecutively

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachBobM View Post
For every stroke but backstroke, swimming and breathing are really,
in some degree, distinct skills. But this really just

postpones the inevitable need to develop breathing skills in the water

Sweet spot breathing, unlike snorkel breathing, does at least teach some of the skills that will ultimately be needed for regular breathing.

Two good rules to keep in mind for any training tool are:
1) Don't use a training tool without knowing why you're using it.
2) Don't use a training tool all the time, or even for an entire practice.

These rules apply regardless of what training tool we're talking about: fist gloves, fins, snorkels, shoes. Drag suits seem to be quite popular nowadays for swim teams, but my main quarrel with them is that people who use them seem to use them all the time and, in my experience, never wear them for only part of a practice.


Bob
Bob
I was not allowed to swim until I bobbed up & down in the water 10 times...
before I was even showed another stroke or even got a chance to go any farther...
I was five and I remember that lesson like it was yesterday!

Hello Master McAdams! & Happy Holidays to YOU!
unconditionally
you have all my love!

Hi guys !
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachBobM View Post
The short answer is: it depends.

First, what do you mean by "beginning swimmer"?
Some people who call themselves "beginners" would have no trouble swimming the length of the pool,

while others lack even the most basic water skills.

Happy Laps is a DVD designed for those who lack basic water skills, but the Easy Freestyle DVD is a better choice for most people.

Bob
I like to start everyone out with the basics
It is a way for everyone to get their feet wet and
socialize and break the ice!


no joke it is FUN...so why not begin with that?

besides Real Basic Beginners Do Not Know the Breathing is an Advanced Skill!
thanks from the Master McAdams that have a way of clearing up my posting skills!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachBobM View Post
...but breathing itself is one of those basic skills
that you really need to master before going any further.
Bob
It is best to hear it from THE MASTER HIMSELF! thanks Bob! & i couldn't know a better way to end the thread!

Last edited by splashingpat : 12-12-2010 at 12:24 AM. Reason: because of misspelled words...nice being quoted but I had some words mispelled! so sorry guys!
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  #23  
Old 12-11-2010
CoachBobM CoachBobM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by splashingpat View Post
Bob
I was not allowed to swim until I bobbed up & down in the water 10 times...
before I was even showed another stroke or even got a change to go another farther...
I was five and I remember that lesson like it was yesterday!
It's significant that, while the Easy Freestyle DVD starts out with balance drills, the Happy Laps DVD starts out with breathing drills. Seamlessly integrating breathing into your swimming stroke is an advanced skill, but breathing itself is one of those basic skills that you really need to master before going any further.


Bob
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  #24  
Old 12-13-2010
splashingpat splashingpat is offline
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splashingpat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachBobM View Post
For every stroke but backstroke,
swimming and breathing are really, in some degree, distinct skills. Even if you've mastered minimizing drag and maximizing propulsion for stroking, there's still a need to do it for breathing.
Fish don't need to worry about that, but we humans do.

A snorkel allows a swimmer to practice stroking without worrying about breathing, and that may be useful at a particular point in a swimmer's development.
(We accomplish the same thing in TI by having swimmers roll to their sweet spot or onto their back to breathe, or even by having swimmers stand when they need to breathe.) But this really just postpones the inevitable need to develop breathing skills in the water. Sweet spot breathing, unlike snorkel breathing, does at least teach some of the skills that will ultimately be needed for regular breathing.

Two good rules to keep in mind for any training tool are:
1) Don't use a training tool without knowing why you're using it.
2) Don't use a training tool all the time, or even for an entire practice.

These rules apply regardless of what training tool we're talking about: fist-gloves, fins, snorkels, shoes. Drag suits seem to be quite popular nowadays for swim teams, but my main quarrel with them is that people who use them seem to use them all the time and, in my experience, never wear them for only part of a practice.





Bob
Never say Never
But I will say
I do love Bob!
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  #25  
Old 12-13-2010
johnny.widen johnny.widen is offline
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Location: Luleň, Sweden
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johnny.widen
Default Swimming with shoes

Quote:
Originally Posted by splashingpat View Post
he swims with his shoes on!
Pat,
I think I found his coach! :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZyG3opeImA

-- Johnny
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  #26  
Old 12-13-2010
splashingpat splashingpat is offline
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splashingpat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny.widen View Post
Pat,
I think I found his coach! :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZyG3opeImA

-- Johnny
Thanks Johnny
where the is a student practices with a useful tool or Not?
there is probable a coach advices him to do so!
ain't there guys?
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  #27  
Old 12-13-2010
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Ha! Good find Johnny!

Why stop at shoes, though. Why not go for heavy boots?

Mind you, he's quite an eminent coach, so perhaps we shouldn't scoff, even if it doesn't fit in with our TI-influenced ideas.

It seems to me that one could actually do damage to the muscles or tendons of the legs by doing this, but perhaps Randy Reese knows better.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Randy_Reese
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  #28  
Old 12-14-2010
CoachBobM CoachBobM is offline
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The question is whether drilling with shoes is doing anything to develop a good kick.

The swimmer's kick looks significantly wider than a freestyle kick should be. There may be a presumption that the swimmer knows how to do a good freestyle kick and will automatically revert to that kind of kick when the shoes are removed. But that implies that, at best, it's a drill for highly practiced swmmers who have engrained good freestyle kicking so well that the habit can't easily be shaken.

Then there's the question of what the drill is doing of a positive nature. The idea seems to be that having the swimmer wear shoes makes it more difficult to kick and therefore forces him to develop better kicking muscles. But what kicking muscles? Are they really the muscles that will propel the swimmer most effectively when he takes off the shoes?

The ultimate question is whether this will help a swimmer's kick more or less than doing laps in a skating position, using nothing but a kick for propulsion.


Bob
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  #29  
Old 12-14-2010
splashingpat splashingpat is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2008
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splashingpat
Default I mention to this father that his son probable shouldn't be swimming with shoes on

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny.widen View Post
Pat,
I think I found his coach! :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZyG3opeImA

-- Johnny

westywoods...

now once again why I think the slogan should be
swill well and be silent!
it happens to me every-time!

I should just ask them if they know how to smile with their belly button?

when we are dancing to our AQUA ZUMBA CLASSES! so
SMILE GUYS
I hope I will be!
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  #30  
Old 12-14-2010
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Posts: 1,380
Richardsk
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Bob, Pat, Johnny and all who contributed to this thread

I am no expert but I have been taking a keen interest in training methods in various sports for a long time and all that I have read leads me to the conclusion that attempting to improve any movement in any sport by adding extra weight or resistance is a vain endeavor. The skill you are training is not the skill you are trying to train. Skill acquisition has been shown over and over again to be extremely specific.

This is not to say that strength training is a vain endeavor but there are probably better methods of training the muscles used in freestyle kicking than this one. However, I am prepared to accept that Randy Reese may be right and that all the experts who found that skill training is specific were wrong.

He probably isn't, though.
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