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  #1  
Old 09-07-2011
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Default 2 Beat Kick

I have been using the 2 beat kick for about 4 months. I thought I was doing fairly well with it, but when I was viewing a video of the young Japanese man's freestyle, I noticed that the right hand entered water, the left foot kicked. I had been doing it completely the opposite--right hand in, right foot kick. This seemed perfectly natural to me.

By kicking with the same foot that the hand was spearing, it seemed that I was getting more propulsion. Is this completely wrong? I am assuming it is, but can't figure out why. I have read several posts and it seems that there are a lot of people that have different ideas about when to kick with which foot.

Also as far as the kick goes, is it a downward kick or upward or like a scissors? Watched several videos on you tube and have seen a variety of styles.

Appreciate any thoughts on this--hopefully there is some agreement on how to do this kick.
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Old 09-07-2011
dshen dshen is offline
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Is the young Japanese man Coach Shinji? ;-)

Yes it is the foot opposite to the spearing hand that kicks. The concept is that as the spearing hand goes in, the body rotates onto the side of the spearing hand, which adds momentum and drive to the stroke. By kicking on the other side, you add more authority to the body rotation, which adds more momentum to the spear.

If you kick on the same side of the spear, you may inhibit extra authority to the hip/body rotation because your kick could be removing the maximum potential of the hip rotation as it slows hip rotation with the kick.
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  #3  
Old 10-22-2011
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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I get the idea--right arm pulls, right leg kick. But somewhere in a thread someone suggested doing SG and isolating the kick. This would give you the feel of the rotation of the hip. Problem is, when I kick with right leg, my right hip goes down instead of up. I have to make a conscious effort to do the opposite of what seems natural. When I combine the right arm pull, the arm pull seems the stronger and drives the right hip up. Also if I hang on to the side of pool and just kick, the kicking leg drives the same side hip up. Am I constructed differently or has someone else experienced the same type of knee jerk?
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Old 10-22-2011
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenson1a View Post
I get the idea--right arm pulls, right leg kick. But somewhere in a thread someone suggested doing SG and isolating the kick. This would give you the feel of the rotation of the hip. Problem is, when I kick with right leg, my right hip goes down instead of up. I have to make a conscious effort to do the opposite of what seems natural. When I combine the right arm pull, the arm pull seems the stronger and drives the right hip up. Also if I hang on to the side of pool and just kick, the kicking leg drives the same side hip up. Am I constructed differently or has someone else experienced the same type of knee jerk?
OOps regarding holding side of pool and kicking, when right leg kicks, right hip goes down
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  #5  
Old 10-22-2011
borate borate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenson1a View Post
OOps regarding holding side of pool and kicking, when right leg kicks, right hip goes down
Check out this for some kick pointers.
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  #6  
Old 03-06-2013
yearn2swim yearn2swim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenson1a View Post
OOps regarding holding side of pool and kicking, when right leg kicks, right hip goes down
It helped me to get the hang of the 2 beat kick by concentrating on hip rotation. Using your example, if you are spearing with your left hand, concentrate on rotating the right hip up and don't worry about your kick. Once you get the feeling down, then think about how you flick your right leg/foot to help the right hip go up instead of down like it's doing now.

Remember, the whole point is to drive rotation and forward momentum transfer. Instead of working it from the "start" of the transfer (the kick), concentrate on how the transfer feels from your hip through your core to your spearing arm.

Hope that helps.

Mike
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  #7  
Old 09-07-2011
sniperthefox sniperthefox is offline
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Hey jenson,

Totally concur with everything dshen has said above. Shinji's CGI is a good visualization aid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JukMa...el_video_title.

The best way to think of this is to walk! The natural way for us to walk is when we step forward with one foot, we swing the opposite hand forward right? Else we would be square-gaiting (in military terms). I also struggled with getting the coordination for the 2BK, and had to really concentrate hard on the timing. To get used to it, I forcefully did it in sequence (kick with right foot, then spear with left hand, etc) regardless of the outcome. This allowed me to at least get the right idea in my head, since it was the opposite to what my brain wanted me to do at the time. Took about a week of practice to get this right, and finally be able to do it comfortably with the right timing (almost simultaneous). It requires a lot of mental practice outside the pool also.

Good luck with your practice. I'd also add that the kick is more effectively done in whip-like manner (per Shinji) with emphasis on a foot/toe downward flick. Avoid a scissor kick... which I also had a tendency of doing at the start, more to do with over-rotating, but nevertheless a common problem that I've read about in this forum.
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Old 09-07-2011
Alex-SG Alex-SG is offline
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Jenson,

There is an interesting exercise you can try to get use to the 2BK.
Instead of doing a normal skating drill (balance drill on the side, with both legs kicking) just do 1 laps with only the lower leg kicking.

After a few kicks, you can spear with the opposite arm and complete the rotation to the other side.

ALEX
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  #9  
Old 09-07-2011
dshen dshen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenson1a View Post
Also as far as the kick goes, is it a downward kick or upward or like a scissors? Watched several videos on you tube and have seen a variety of styles.
oops forgot to answer this part!

i like to think of the kick as more a kick forward, versus a kick back, since your body may be slightly rotated and down or up may be confusing.

so you do not want to draw the heel back towards your buttocks in a kick, but rather kick forward as if you were going to kick a soccer ball.

one may ask, how do i bend the knee then? don't i have to draw the leg back towards my butt in order to "cock" the leg for kicking?

instead of using that visualization to cock the leg which may cause you need to be actually kicking back towards your butt in order to cock the leg, i would encourage you to instead think about relaxing the kicking leg at the knee such that the knee drops forward. this creates the bend in the kicking leg but does not cause you to actively draw the leg back which is bad.

then kick forward (as if kicking a soccer ball) with a compact snap, because you don't want to get your legs outside of your own wake which would cause drag. as you induce/help hip and body rotation with the kick, you'll find that the leg naturally floats back into position behind your body as you move forward.

give that a try and let us know how it goes.

as for practicing 2BK coordination, Coach Shinji had me lay somewhat flat on the water, arms at my sides, and then kick gently with each leg one at a time. as i kicked a leg, i was supposed to feel the rotational force it would impose and which way the rotation would happen.

then i moved to one spear at a time practice. this means standing in the pool, launching yourself into superman glide, then pull one arm back into skate. the arm pulling back then comes forward in recovery, and then i perform one spear (with other arm pulling back). after i do that, i glide to a stop. i stand up, and repeat. i repeat this with the same arm spearing all the way down the length of a 25y pool. then on the way back, i practice the other arm.

this allows me to isolate and focus on the elements of one side's spear and stroke and to keep repeating it over and over until it gets burned into my nervous system. doing both sides while swimming can be too confusing if i'm trying to learn something new.

so practicing one side, i focus on which leg i'm going to kick and attempted to kick with the correct leg for that side's spear/stroke.

once you master the right kick on one side, then you can move to 2 stroke practice which is then instead of stopping with one stroke/spear, you add one more stroke/spear with the opposite side before standing up and starting over.

then once this feels pretty good, you can then increase to 3 strokes, and 4, and then all of a sudden you're swimming the length of the pool correctly (hopefully)...
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  #10  
Old 09-08-2011
svenosaurus svenosaurus is offline
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There is a good discussion of kicking in this thread, including my account of unlearning the off-beat kick I had been using for a long time. The good news is, it isn't too difficult: I was able to lose the bad habit over a couple of weeks, even though (1) it seemed impossible when I first tried it, and (2) I am a klutz.

The best way to think of kicking is as something that helps your body rotation, not as a means of propulsion.
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