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Old 02-10-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,680
Default Video for analysis - including shinjiesque 12SPL and slow motion underwater

Here is this morning's video, I realised if I waited until the guy had finished sweeping the pool I could submerge my camera on a sun table. hee hee.

All the over water footage is my race pace SR 1.14 but trying to hold 19SPL instead of 20 (30 yrd pool)

The underwater footage is all trying to be shinji 14SPL @ SR1.3 (30 yd pool so I count that as 12SPL for normal)

These are the bits I like

balance on top of the water ok
rhythm and timing very good, hips connecting to arm to create lots of propulsion

things I don't like

bad streamline as my right arm comes in I kink my rear end to the left a bit causing some snaking?

also at this stage my head pops up as I thrust?

my recovery arms are uneven and I am still nearly stacking the right shoulder. (I have been doing a lot more finger tip drill but need to film length starts until this gets better, or is it a balance issue?)

my leg timing is ok but the action is a mess and probably not helping me at all.

my left arm isn't breaking enough underwater, its a bit rod like.

Corrective measures please. be as rude and frank as you like.

filmed with my $168 muvi camera, $10 waterproof housing and edited with imovie (for those that want the details)
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Old 02-10-2012
drmike drmike is offline
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 31
Default kick


" leg timing is ok but the action is a mess and probably not helping ..."

You have a nice glide but you'd get more propulsion and create less disturbance by kicking from hip. From side views, it seems the kick usu. is from the knee.

Mike M.
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Old 02-11-2012
Ghul Ghul is offline
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 59

Much better than I would look on film I suspect...

Your recovery is indeed asymmetric. To my eye your right arm executes
a better high elbow recovery. Your left sweeps around much lower.

I don't think your 2-beat kick is quite right. It should be right leg kicks as right
pulls, left leg as left arm pulls but often both are kicking.

I've been trying to learn the 2-beat kick and am finding it hard. I think my dominant leg wants to kick even it's not supposed to. (Whisper it not but
I think even Terry sometimes has both legs kicking in his videos...). I also
think it's easier to remember to kick from the glutes rather than the knees with a
continuous flutter.
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Old 02-11-2012
daveblt daveblt is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 820

Overall your stroke looks nice and seems smooth and balanced . Your right arm enter too narrow but the left seems okay.When you go to breathe keep the recovery hand closer to the water with the hand just over the surface. The 2 beat kick is actually working the opposite way .In other words your kicking down when the same side arm enters .Right leg kicks down and the left hand enters and vice versa , but I know that can be easier said than done .

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Old 02-11-2012
tomoy tomoy is offline
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 585

One of these days I'll put together a video and have the guts to post it. So props for you there! Thx for the camera info! Lots of good work on catch and wide tracks, posture-chest-leading, general streamlining. The most notable thing I see is the recovery. Having just watched the vid of Shinji demo-ing different tempos (tough comparo!), I see a hand-led recovery vs. elbow-lead, and the imbalance between right and left.

Otherwise, looks great, to my consternation and envy :-)
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Old 02-11-2012
Butiki Butiki is offline
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 75

First things first, if you're doing that low of an SPL at that tempo, you're already swimming better than me! And I know you're doing it for far longer distance, so kudos. I will only comment on what I see, but I'll leave it to the coaches to recommend corrective measures.

1) Kicking - I'm counting a 5-beat kick, but you're gliding a lot so it's looking like a rough 2BK, and probably "feels" like a 2BK. For example, on the right-arm pull, you do a left-leg "pre-kick" prior to the natural right-foot beat that goes with the right arm stroke, then you squeeze them together for a streamlined glide. That's 2 kicks on the right.

Then on the left-arm pull, you do a right-foot "pre-kick", then the natural left-foot kick that goes with the left arm stroke, then again a right-foot "post-kick", then feet together for a streamlined glide. That's 3 kicks on the left. These 3 kicks are actually half of the natural 6BK, but since you glide so much it looks broken up.

So it would seem like you need to work more on having "quieter" legs. There's a drill for it using the overswitch drills where, starting on single switches, you pause the legs just before the switch, then perform the arm switch while kicking only 1 leg and maintaining the other leg streamlined, then pause the legs again as you propel and glide. Then add more switches when the single switch feels comfortable enough.

2) Head position - you seem to be looking far forward than recommended

3) Overwater uneven arm recoveries - maybe bilateral breathing will help to even things out?

4) Body snaking - Could it be that your right spearing arm is targeting the body's midline instead of right shoulder line. Your left spearing arm seems to be on wide tracks but your right arm goes to center.

Hope this helps for what it's worth... You're a better swimmer than most I've seen around here (including me).
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Old 02-11-2012
rbs24h rbs24h is offline
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Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Southern Cal
Posts: 104

Originally Posted by Butiki View Post
3) Overwater uneven arm recoveries - maybe bilateral breathing will help to even things out?
Took words out of my mouth. It was the only comment I was going to make because I do the same thing. And breathing some lengths to my left I found more propulsion and more symmetrical stroke.

Nice video.
Paul Holcomb
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Old 02-11-2012
cycosuicide cycosuicide is offline
Junior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 7
Default Head Position

That is the first thing I noticed. You look forward nearly the whole time. I learned to swim from a Triathlon Coaching company and TI. Both really impress the importance of keeping your head facing down.

Terry is even better because he advocates that you don't forcibly look down but rather rest your head in a neutral position without any strain.

I suspect that you may solve a lot of problems and be even more comfortable swimming just by relaxing your head and letting your eyes stare at the pool bottom.
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Old 02-11-2012
westyswoods westyswoods is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Rio, Wisconsin
Posts: 564
Default Video Feedback


Responses to this point seem to be more than appropriate.

A couple of points.

1. Your kick does seem disjointed. Notice the turbulence each foot is causing.
When views in slow mo and or stop it is very apparent how much of your
kick is generated from the knee.

I have total empathy for this. Mine is very similar, the difficulty being does
not at all feel like my knees are flexing.

2. You also appear to be looking more forward instead of head in neutral

3. At times the body does the U shape or bend out of stream line. I have
been working with resistance bands placed around knees, swimming 25's
no kick and really focusing on that streamline. Much like using a pull buoy.
When doing this I also attempt to get rotation generated from hips, not at
all easy without kick.

In closing hope you find these helpful. I have been meaning to post video for some time seems as there is always something preventing. Wanted to film today, took a nasty fall on ice yesterday and can barely move shoulder now.

Have a great day

Swim Silent and Be Well
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Old 02-11-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,680

Thanks to all for taking time to watch and comment.

Nice to hear the same thing from different perspectives and some really helpful things to work on. Will keep taking film this week and see what I can change.

My immediate focal points pre race season will be

Chill with the legs, just try to let them follow since the wet suit helps with buoyancy anyway. (will probably go back to basics after the summer and learn to kick from the hips - never got that)

Get that head down (looking forward definitely a negative hangover of swimming in very busy lanes)

balance the recoveries and get them elbow led, watch the spear position of the right hand.
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