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  #1  
Old 02-09-2012
Joe Novak Joe Novak is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2012
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Joe Novak
Default Where do we go from here?

We have a swimmer who is 6'3" and has a goal of swimming a 2.4 mile swim in about 51:29.00 (while still saving energy for a bike and run). We did 10 repeats of 200-yard swims - here are the results:

Tempo SPL Time
#1 1.35 14 2:53.13
#2 1.32 14 2:47.36
#3 1.29 14 2:41.44
#4 1.26 14 2:40.10
#5 1.23 14 2:36.98
#6 1.20 14 2:33.41
#7 1.17 15 2:44.10
#8 1.14 15 2:42.33
#9 1.11 15 2:39.22
#10 1.08 15 2:40.03

What's the best way to improve. At first I was thinking it would be better to try to get faster at 15 SPL, but now I'm thinking we should try to see if we can bring down both his SPL and Tempo over time with the tempo being the first priority.

How do I figure out what combination of SPL and Tempo he needs to be at to go 51:29.00 for a 2.4 mile swim?
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  #2  
Old 02-09-2012
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CoachDave CoachDave is offline
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Location: Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 249
CoachDave
Default Tempo questions

Joe,
I'll be in town in a few weeks and would love to see him in action.
My guess is that there is a hitch somewhere in his stroke. I think a peak sustainable speed at 1.20 might be a bit slow on the tempo, so there must be somewhere in there that he is lingering. Often, it comes when someone draws the elbow up sharply and wastes stroke cycle time in getting the hand around while leaving the elbow in place. Loosening to wide tracks above the water and focusing on the shoulder blade to elbow lead swing helps out with this.
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www.ywcampls.org/ti
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  #3  
Old 02-10-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Posts: 1,680
andyinnorway
Default

Hi,

If my maths is right then his goal is to swim his ironman swim at 80 yards a minute?

that's a 1.15/100yd split right?

which is at the top end of the non elite athletes.

Where is his standard at the moment for longer swims? e.g. can he hold 1.15 pace for 1000 yards.

Anyway to have a stab at your last question. As a strong triathlete I think with training and some technical correction he could sustain a high stroke rate of between 0.8-0.9.

You should also calculate his push off distance so that you can work out his exact distance per stroke e.g. push off 7 yards followed by 17SPL for next 18 yards gives him a distance of 1.06yds per stroke

4100 yards / 1.06 = 3868 strokes

3100 seconds / 3868 strokes in open water = 0.8

If he can maintain 16SPL at fast stroke rate then in open water his stroke rate would be 0.85


This is the formula for open water SR calculation

Pool length - push off length = A

SPL = B

Open water stroke length in yards = A/B = C

Race distance 3.8K = 4155 yards = D

Desired time in Seconds 51.29 = 3099 seconds = E

Stroke rate = (E/D)*C

Worked example 1 mile in 26.40 or 1 meter per second


I swim in a 27.5m pool

27.5m pool - push off 5.5m = 22 meters (A)

My race SPL = 20 (B)

Open Water Stroke Length A/B 22/20 = 1.10m

Race distance 1600m

Desired time in seconds = 1600

Stroke rate = (1600/1600)*1.1

I just realised that to swim a meter a second your stroke rate has to exactly equal your stroke length.

hope that helps with the maths at least.

Last edited by andyinnorway : 02-10-2012 at 01:36 AM. Reason: incorrect number
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  #4  
Old 02-10-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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CoachSuzanne
Default

Dave, I've met joes athlete and I'm excited for you to get to see him swim as well. Talk about a one two punch of coaching and experience...Joe Novak and Dave Cameron! Sprint champ and distance master. Sweeeeeeet! I wanna be a fly on that pool deck.... :)
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  #5  
Old 02-10-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Default

Joe, just a suggestion...

Try taking his fastest combo here... 1.2 rate @ 14 SPL

Do some sets with that as your "seed"
Here are some ideas, can be combined on same days or different days. I agree that at 1.20 sec and 14 spl with his height there are probably still some form issues to continue tweaking. That being said, if the 200 at 1.2 and 14 spl is strenuous, then the sets below may be better at shorter distances so he doesn't continue to get sloppier with fatigue.

Set#1 2000
10x200 @ that combo, only successful rounds count. Rest is as needed to meet goal.

Set #2 1800

3 rounds of:
1x200 @ 1.22
2x100 @ 1.20
4x50 @ 1.18

Set #3
2-3 rounds (1500-2250)
Rounds at 13 spl as long as successful(no Tt)
4x50
3x75
2x100
1x125
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #6  
Old 02-10-2012
Joe Novak Joe Novak is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 16
Joe Novak
Default I can't wait!

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachDave View Post
Joe,
I'll be in town in a few weeks and would love to see him in action.
My guess is that there is a hitch somewhere in his stroke. I think a peak sustainable speed at 1.20 might be a bit slow on the tempo, so there must be somewhere in there that he is lingering. Often, it comes when someone draws the elbow up sharply and wastes stroke cycle time in getting the hand around while leaving the elbow in place. Loosening to wide tracks above the water and focusing on the shoulder blade to elbow lead swing helps out with this.
Dave,
I look forward to seeing you in a couple of weeks. If it's okay - I'll just sit back and have you take over.
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