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  #11  
Old 08-26-2014
SlipryNoodle SlipryNoodle is offline
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Thanks Scotty...that's a great and encouraging story!

Videos are coming available, with coach feedback and focal points. THESE ARE SWEET!
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  #12  
Old 08-26-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scotty View Post
.... learning the right technique is often awkward difficult and time consuming. And learning a new skill often throws off some other element of the stroke. ...
This is sooooo true imo. And probably true of everything I suspect.

Walking along the high street today I realised that when I really concentrate on some aspect of my walking, such as the timing of heel strike, with weight transfer and push off, I sometimes hold my breath. I've noticed my right arm will become tensed too! I'm sure this sort of thing happens when I'm swimming. Why wouldn't it?!

Development seems something of an iterative process. I tune one thing and then find I have to go back and re-tune other elements of the stroke. Often, in trying to sort out these "secondary" things, I find the gains of the thing I was working on seem to evaporate.

As you say a: "maddening journey of success, setbacks, constant learning and hopefully continuous improvement". Beautifully put.
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #13  
Old 08-26-2014
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Talvi,

Mat advocates maximum of three FPs and then sequences as:

A, B, C, AB, AC, BC, ABC

repetitions as often as neccessary (who'll know?), also parts of the sequence.

Might work as interlogging gears.

Best regards,
Werner
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  #14  
Old 08-26-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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I read that too Werner but found I am simply too scatty to do it :D Information just emerges from my body into my mind.

If say I am focusing on my breathing but in order to rotate I realize I need to spear wider/differently, is my focus still on breathing or has it shifted to spearing, or do I now have two focal points? If I then notice that my long-line balance needs adjusting am I to ignore that? I can't imagine that making sense. It's the spinning plates. In order to swim I need to spin all the plates, legs, arms, torso, head etc.

What I find end up doing is to have a focus, or distance, or tempo in mind as the centre point for the session or part of a session and that this then brings into focus other issues. As everything is connected together, as Scotty was writing in another thread, I don't find any option other than to respond to what seems worst at any given moment, to spin the plate at most danger of making the ensemble collapse. And for me that seems to vary virtually stroke to stroke!! Grrr. LoL
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A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #15  
Old 08-26-2014
SlipryNoodle SlipryNoodle is offline
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I resemble that Talvi...

Kind of gives new meaning to the Beatles tune Tomorrow Never Knows. "Turn off your mind relax and Float Downstream."

oh no, another thing in my head to quiet while swimming. I hope it's a reasonable tempo for beginners TI Swimming. ;)
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  #16  
Old 08-26-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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Great track (and album) it sounds laid back enough ... but I make it about 0.98 on my TT ... and when I swim at that tempo I feel like I'm racing!! :D
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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  #17  
Old 08-26-2014
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello Talvi,


Quote:
If say I am focusing on my breathing but in order to rotate I realize I need to spear wider/differently, is my focus still on breathing or has it shifted to spearing, or do I now have two focal points?...
2ct or FWIW.

Think many of us do know this very well. Yesterday the pool was so crowdy, absolutely impossible to swim continues laps. So every lap was interrupted by other "swimmers". I realized, it definetely was possible just to focus one single point only until next tiny pause. Then a new start old focus or new one. Think this is Terry's, never practice struggle (what is it when able of whole strokes for "longer" time?).

Another thing I practice when swimming continues "longer" terms, the actual lap dictates the FP of the next. Pure lap swimmer, but you could say 20 strokes for every FP, if necessary cut it down to 10 or 15 strokes in OW... (A blind talks about colour...)

Best regards,
Werner
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  #18  
Old 08-27-2014
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CoachDave CoachDave is offline
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Default No worries

I'm glad you joined us last weekend. We see many levels of swimmers at all the sessions, and I think our makeup was pretty typical at this clinic. Most of your observations are spot on- the more you're trying to get everything down at once, the less you accomplish, and the more that frustration builds on itself. We reiterate the single-minded focus idea many times because it takes that much reminding. This is a skill that we all have built-in and habit-built habits that are decades old to overcome, and patience is essential.
It looks like either the last session clips were removed from dropbox or they went in the wrong folder, so I'm making a new set right now. You're also welcome, from now until my expiration, to send me videos for tips along the way. Just remember some of the closing advice on day 2-
- go to practice with 2,3,4 maximum things to work on, and separate them. You can tackle the same focus in drills and full stroke
- bring a focal point that feels good and helps with connections, even if you think you've got it. It might be the reassurance that relaxes you enough to succeed with another focal point
- if you don't know why you're doing something, don't do it. Ask, understand better, or turn your attention to things that bring you better awareness of good swimming problem-solving. Balance and streamlining always come as a priority before propulsion for the majority of swimmers.
- use all the resources around you. Describing your technical goal to another swimmer helps you understand it better. Remember how much the group got out of partner exercises
And get in touch when I'm back in town- I don't leave people hanging. We want you to join a community of happy, mindful swimmers, and we're going to help you get there!
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  #19  
Old 08-27-2014
Talvi Talvi is offline
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CoachDave

I read your post, and do try that, but I don't know what the advice then is to manage what then happens. To rework the example I gave above:

Quote:
... If say I am focusing on my breathing but in order to fine tune the rotation I realize I need to spear wider/differently, is my focus still on breathing or has it shifted to spearing, or do I now have two focal points? If I then notice that my long-line balance needs adjusting should I ignore that and practice breathing with poor streamline? ..
My experience of FS is that it's like spinning plates: in order to swim I need to keep all the plates spinning at the same time, and with as little effort as possible. If for example I let the breathing plate fall and choke on a mouthful of water then all focus moves to staying calm, keeping swimming and getting some relaxation back, so I can return to focusing rather than "surviving".

For me, when I get in the water, everything is irritatingly connected together. When I launch into the blue I don't find I have any option other than to respond to what seems worst in my stroke at that moment i.e to focus on the plate that is spinning the poorest. If I start swimming with a focus on recovery and feel my streamline is poor then I try and correct my streamline rather than practice recovery with poor streamline.

So my question is what is the advice for this experience? Perhaps I am misunderstanding the term "focus" or its use in TI?



Hi Werner, 2c add up to a tidy nest egg :) I always appreciate them. And I know that feeling of being unable to swim more than one lap without colliding with someone else's feet! Once however I found it really relaxing. Zero "pressure". Like being in an immense bathtub! I've tried to reproduce that feeling but seldom get close.

Generally, for one or two slow strokes, I too find I can have just one focus. The issue I find, and you seem to understand too, is in putting it together, as over ten or twenty strokes other elements of the stroke impact on that focus. For instance, if I find I am banana-ing then my UW stroke will be offline, my recovery and spear will be affected and my breathing too. Not banana-ing then leads to modifiying all those other parts of the stroke, not through choice but consequentially. Going back to my Foundations thread I feel I need to correct/focus on things in order, and if one earlier bit is slipping then I attend to that. Janos gave me a lot of advice about using the spear-switch drill to get the FQ timing right. I didn't have a lot of luck with that but have just discovered that focusing on recovery and the waltz marks has really generated a massive insight into it. Odd.

Maybe though we're all just talking about two things here. One might be when there is simply no understanding or feel for an element of the stroke. I can imagine that then it makes sense to get a feel imprinted in some way. The other would be in whole stroke when it's the way everything fits together that is being practised. Just an idea from the blind to the blind :D
__________________
A psychological disorder is: "Any personal construction which is used repeatedly in spite of consistent invalidation."
~ George Kelly

"The water is your friend.....you don't have to fight with water, just share the same spirit as the water, and it will help you move."
~ Aleksandr Popov
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