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  #11  
Old 02-12-2014
cpa_pfs cpa_pfs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachDavidShen View Post
For High Elbow concepts, i like this video by Dave Cameron:

http://youtu.be/tDmQiHQ8mW8

That video was very beneficial. While it was a dryland explanation ... he kept it simple. I swam this morning and worked and worked his move. I found that if I put on fins and then worked on the hands/forearms very slowly I could get the feel of the timing of both hands and the weight shift. Then doing them at normal speed felt much better.

I have progressed from the stage where my first move with my arms was downward ... to where my arm movement is always backwards and propelling me. But this vid helped lengthen the propulsion ... and I appreciate it and that you posted it for us.
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  #12  
Old 02-13-2014
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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I have never been able to get past the first 30 seconds of any of his videos. Not an endorsment nor a criticism...i think it's the audio learning thing.

He seems to be demonstrating some OK things...I just can't get through them, lol. (Sorry Coach Evans). My sister in law has actually been to some of his swim camps.
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  #13  
Old 02-13-2014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
I have never been able to get past the first 30 seconds of any of his videos. Not an endorsment nor a criticism...i think it's the audio learning thing.

He seems to be demonstrating some OK things...I just can't get through them, lol. (Sorry Coach Evans). My sister in law has actually been to some of his swim camps.
Mark uses too many words to describe the process, it's much simpler than that. I think this is because he knows what the high elbow catch is, just has difficulty articulating how. In his video demo (I don't get the forest setting much either), he pulls himself into catch and hip follows. Coach Dave is very specific in the hip rotation positions the spearing arm in to catch. Or like you noted in separate post Suzanne "catch happens" as a consequence of the hip rotation.

Rajan: I have my students practice "catch happens" in both dryland and in the pool. Dryland (single arm), stand if front of mirror, start superman, rotate to skate. Now "from the hip" rotate to opposite skate and hinge skating arm at elbow only (don't pull back), then rotate back to opposite skate unhinging elbow to forward (skating) extension - this is a single arm drill. I.e. From left skate, rotate hips to right side as left arm hinges into left catch, repeat. This is more difficult to do in the pool, but the action from the hip is the same. Hip drives rotation as the "catch happens". I call this drill/rehearsal "skate to catch - catch to skate". Give it a try.

Happy Catch!

Stuart
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  #14  
Old 02-13-2014
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Default I love Dave's videos

Man...it's time to start filming videos again. That one was in my old house's living room, and it would do best to include a pool demonstration. Maybe I can work on the speaking content now and film in Kona...
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  #15  
Old 02-13-2014
cpa_pfs cpa_pfs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Mark uses too many words to describe the process, it's much simpler than that. I think this is because he knows what the high elbow catch is, just has difficulty articulating how.
I hesitate to be say this and I hope it does not come across as caustic. His speaking style does not work for me. He apparently knows his topic ... but he starts to explain it then goes on tangents which results in a confusing overexplanation.



Quote:
stand if front of mirror, start superman, rotate to skate. Now "from the hip" rotate to opposite skate and hinge skating arm at elbow only (don't pull back), then rotate back to opposite skate unhinging elbow to forward (skating) extension - this is a single arm drill. I.e. From left skate, rotate hips to right side as left arm hinges into left catch, repeat.
Yeah, I get this. Thanks. It seems to emphasis what I want to feel.
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  #16  
Old 02-13-2014
cpa_pfs cpa_pfs is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachDave View Post
Man...it's time to start filming videos again. That one was in my old house's living room, and it would do best to include a pool demonstration.
Dave, I posted most of these comments in a different post, but since you posted here, and will likely see it here, I want to take this opportunity to express my gratitude for this video. I am in sales and we have a saying. If you haven't heard a story before ... even if it is an old one ... then it is still "new to you". That could apply to this vid that you see as old and I see as new.

I am a recent AOS. I am a marathoner. I have run all of the World Marathon Majors. Not that hard. Yet I struggle with swimming.

This video. This explanation. I have watched/studied it dozens of times. It has helped tremendously. I mimic your dryland drill. Simply pierce with one hand while performing the EVF with the other ... while rotating. Back and forth. Just that. It made linkage of the two hands and the rotation.

I have taken it to the pool. At first, I have swam very slowly, exaggerating the move as if in slow motion ... while basically skating.

What I found is to wait to start the catch until the pierce hand enters the water ... and pierce the water about a foot behind the existing spear hand ... then spear while the other hand moves into the early vertical position you demonstrate. The entry of the new spear hand is my trigger to start my early vertical catch. I move the hands in unison ... while rotating ... just like in the dryland drill.

I think I understand "why" this works for me. Yes, I am a CPA and ummm ... rather analytical ... and always have to figure out the "why". I think it is because the new spear hand and the early vertical catch hand travel a similar distance ... about a foot. At that point I am streamlined with one arm and in position to push water backwards with the other. I have also started my rotation ... which seems to be almost automatic and a by-product.

I like swimming like this. I like the short linkage of the two acts followed by focusing on one arm for propulsion. I like feeling like I stay streamlined. I like the rotation. I (now) like having a long powerful pull. I like the by-product of having more time to breathe.

I have watched many good TI swimmers and have been fascinating by what appears to be a lurching forward as they spear. I think that is an optical illusion. It is being in that streamlined position while they have a long, strong pull ... that causes the lurch forward.

Other than the 1' transition from one hand piercing to the other ... I feel like I am always streamlined. Better yet, because I am so quickly into the piercing position ... my pull arm can travel the entire length of my reach "by itself". Basically I can focus on it and pushing the water backwards since the other arm is already straight out in front of me. Bonus, I have more time to breathe.

Bottom line. This vid has affected change in my swimming ... and I think it is positive change. It wasn't the only thing at play. I take private lessons with someone who is also analytical personality. I film my swims regularly and I break them down and study them. Over and over. I have been 'front quadrant' swimming. But this video helped me 'put it all together' ... and I appreciate that. Thank you.

Last edited by cpa_pfs : 02-13-2014 at 08:11 PM.
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  #17  
Old 02-13-2014
cpa_pfs cpa_pfs is offline
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As I re-read my post above ... a thought occurs to me. A neophyte swimmer explained what he thinks he figured out and seems to be working for him. But ... I could be all wrong.

Hmmm. If I am ... oh well. I am swimming better than I ever have and am actually enjoying swimming ... which previously I viewed as a "near death anti-drowning exercise".
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  #18  
Old 02-13-2014
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Mark uses too many words to describe the process, it's much simpler than that. I think this is because he knows what the high elbow catch is, just has difficulty articulating how. In his video demo (I don't get the forest setting much either), he pulls himself into catch and hip follows. Coach Dave is very specific in the hip rotation positions the spearing arm in to catch. Or like you noted in separate post Suzanne "catch happens" as a consequence of the hip rotation.

Rajan: I have my students practice "catch happens" in both dryland and in the pool. Dryland (single arm), stand if front of mirror, start superman, rotate to skate. Now "from the hip" rotate to opposite skate and hinge skating arm at elbow only (don't pull back), then rotate back to opposite skate unhinging elbow to forward (skating) extension - this is a single arm drill. I.e. From left skate, rotate hips to right side as left arm hinges into left catch, repeat. This is more difficult to do in the pool, but the action from the hip is the same. Hip drives rotation as the "catch happens". I call this drill/rehearsal "skate to catch - catch to skate". Give it a try.

Happy Catch!

Stuart
MindBodyAndSWIM
I do this standing while waiting for the bus or walking to the woods. I'm sure people think I'm nuts. But the dryland rehearsal helps a lot. I started doing these odd dry land rehearsals ever since my weekend workshop with Dave Cameron.
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USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #19  
Old 02-13-2014
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Mark uses too many words to describe the process, it's much simpler than that. I think this is because he knows what the high elbow catch is, just has difficulty articulating how. In his video demo (I don't get the forest setting much either), he pulls himself into catch and hip follows. Coach Dave is very specific in the hip rotation positions the spearing arm in to catch. Or like you noted in separate post Suzanne "catch happens" as a consequence of the hip rotation.

Rajan: I have my students practice "catch happens" in both dryland and in the pool. Dryland (single arm), stand if front of mirror, start superman, rotate to skate. Now "from the hip" rotate to opposite skate and hinge skating arm at elbow only (don't pull back), then rotate back to opposite skate unhinging elbow to forward (skating) extension - this is a single arm drill. I.e. From left skate, rotate hips to right side as left arm hinges into left catch, repeat. This is more difficult to do in the pool, but the action from the hip is the same. Hip drives rotation as the "catch happens". I call this drill/rehearsal "skate to catch - catch to skate". Give it a try.

Happy Catch!

Stuart
MindBodyAndSWIM
I do this standing while waiting for the bus or walking to the woods. I'm sure people think I'm nuts. But the dryland rehearsal helps a lot. I started doing these odd dry land rehearsals ever since my weekend workshop with Dave Cameron.
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Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #20  
Old 02-13-2014
dprevish dprevish is offline
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Could someone perhaps link a clip of this dryland exercise? I am not able to visualize...
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