Is there a CSR and how to find it?

[WFEGb]

Hello,

the following quote from CoachSuzanne in an other thread,

...The danger zone being...rate continues to slow, but SPL begins going up. That's counterproductive to our investigation as it only muddies the picture...

and my unsuccessful attempts in asymmetric tempo pyramids (came too often out with 1-2strokes more as started...) led me to my question.

Is there a critical stroke rate (CSR) at which we might do our drills for optimal results in analogy to the CSS in pure endurance training. Is there perhaps a strong relation between both?

I'm sure there is a CSR window. Faster SR or lower SR will never make any sense. But how to find it? And how to realize the thresholds?

Best regards,
Werner

[andyinnorway]

Originally Posted by WFEGb

Hello,

the following quote from CoachSuzanne in an other thread,



and my unsuccessful attempts in asymmetric tempo pyramids (came too often out with 1-2strokes more as started...) led me to my question.

Is there a critical stroke rate (CSR) at which we might do our drills for optimal results in analogy to the CSS in pure endurance training. Is there perhaps a strong relation between both?

I'm sure there is a CSR window. Faster SR or lower SR will never make any sense. But how to find it? And how to realize the thresholds?

Best regards,
Werner

Hi Werner,

not sure if this links exactly to your question but I think the body can sort technique out under duress as well as optimal conditions. Think of some of the tennis shots you see in the big points in grand slam matches, they aren't practiced, they just come from within, but once it happens the body takes a snap shot memory of it in case it needs it again.

I'm adding a set that combines aerobic and technical demands to my swimming this month for that very reason.

Don't know if others agree with that reasoning or not though.

[CharlesCouturier]

Hi Werner, I don't think that Critical and Rate should be combined in the same expression, if we want to avoid drifting the meaning of Critical (generally applied to either speed or power).

The reason for this is that there's no relationship between rate and metabolic or physiological matters.

Critical speed = speed which correlates very well with one's maximal lactate steady state (as I explained in some other thread).

However, there's already a concept of Sweet Spot Rate, and that makes perfect sense. Think of the Sweet Spot Rate as the most economical rate that one might select to swim a distance (with speed in mind).

There are ways to assess it, one of the ways is not supported here on TI, I'm sure Terry and other coaches have a bunch of ways to assess it.

I'd say that the purpose with the SSR, is to first figure out what is yours, then to figure out if it's suitable given your goals.

[WFEGb]

Hello Andy,

...I'm adding a set that combines aerobic and technical demands to my swimming this month for that very reason...

Might you please be so kind and publish them here? May be doubling times and distances halved will fit just my skills.

Hi Charles,

...I don't think that Critical and Rate should be combined in the same expression...

I'll try to be more precise what I meant. Two examples:

- When focussing on special aspects, lets say finding the right angle of body rotation. I can focus down to 1.18s. Shorter beeps push me to get the stroke right for the beeps with no more room to Focus on any other thing. So my "CSR" may be 1.18s for that drill.

But if I did some drills before I'd like to carry some goodies into the next drill, and that's not possible at 1.18s. For that the "CSR" could be 1.25s or so. Or the angle of rotation has to vary with each SR so at least there is no "best SR".

- Focus to no splashing elbows after recovery. I'm sure there is a SR where balance problems occur and the stroke becomes so slow that no splashes are observable. On the other side same will happen as in first example. That will be a quite wide open SR-window 1.2 to 1.7. So what's the best rate to drill for getting the fastest imprint?

Thanks for your anwers,
Werner

[andyinnorway]

this is my technical aerobic set

3x600m

50m breathing every 4 strokes
50m slippery eels quick stroke rate
100m @1500m pace with 2bk
50m High distance per stroke (check its lower than the previous 100m)
50m Open water sight every stroke
100m @1500m pace with 6bk
50m off side breathing
50m speed breastroke (long power, count strokes)
100m @200m pace

I'll do this as my main set every 3 swims and see what happens with the times throughout the month.

[WFEGb]

Hi Andy,

thank you very much! Think I'll give it a try for some weeks, but being not able to swim with 6BK, I'll swim the second 100m with another 2BK (or what I call my 2BK).

Any pauses? How long? No pauses after the 600m? (Well, I think I have to take some...)

Regards,
Werner