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  #11  
Old 05-21-2013
CoachDavidShen CoachDavidShen is offline
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Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post

In answer to Coach DavidShen, I imagine that I am unlikely to greatly improve the mobility of my right shoulder at my advanced age, but I do do mobility exercises and am more supple than many others of my age but obviously less supple than others. I am fortunate in that I do not suffer pain in any of my joints although I have a knee that gives the odd twinge - probably a relic of my foolish fascination with jumping when I was a boy. I practised the short jump, the low jump and the short triple jump and was a line-out jumper when I played Rugby, although at a low level. Naturally I ignored all warnings about future joint damage.
i wouldn't be too sure of that. i got trained in the Functional Movement Screen (http://www.functionalmovement.com) and we've seen great results in all ages, especially in the areas like shoulder mobility. What mobility exercises are you doing?
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  #12  
Old 05-22-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi Coach David

Sorry for the delay in replying. I don't do any fancy exercises for the shoulders; just shrugging, circling with elbows, raising arms forward and back and to the sides, squeezing the shoulder blades and doing big circles in Tai Chi style.

I also do yoga neck exercises.

I own a set of fairly light dumbbells but don't use them much, and also have a set of resistance bands, which I am planning to use more.
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  #13  
Old 05-22-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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@ Richardsk,
Yestreday I got the crazy right arm fly again because I stopped doing the "weight shift tracks" correctly. Just so you know. Maybe you should also work on the "weight shift tracks". Its the only thing that works for me and believe me I tried everything (arms, timing, stroke style, body rotations, etc, etc)

Just telling my own experience :)
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  #14  
Old 05-22-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi swimust

The trouble is that you use terminology that is not always easy to understand. Would you kindly explain what you mean by 'weight shift tracks'. Naturally I am familiar with the ordinary TI use of the term track (or rail ) as imaginary lines below you in the pool and clearly you rock from side to side or from track to track as you swim. Likewise I am familiar with the idea that the movement of your body assists or even drives the action of your arms, just as in rowing the body rather than the arms should be doing the work - although I bet a rower can feel it in his arm muscles as well. It's many a long year since I sat in a rowing boat and was never a competitive rower in any case.
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  #15  
Old 05-23-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
Hi swimust

The trouble is that you use terminology that is not always easy to understand. Would you kindly explain what you mean by 'weight shift tracks'. Naturally I am familiar with the ordinary TI use of the term track (or rail ) as imaginary lines below you in the pool and clearly you rock from side to side or from track to track as you swim. Likewise I am familiar with the idea that the movement of your body assists or even drives the action of your arms, just as in rowing the body rather than the arms should be doing the work - although I bet a rower can feel it in his arm muscles as well. It's many a long year since I sat in a rowing boat and was never a competitive rower in any case.
Its the way my body twists during the "Shinji torso twist" which maybe different than your body rotation. I create relation between the moving arm and the weight going into my spearing side (on the torso side).
Its done gradually. I forgot its gradual and failed 2 days ago because I tried doing it "at once".
I guess its different technique than "traditional TI" but I am not sure about that. maybe its the same.

In other words, finding my "torso twist" solved the right arm issue. I am trying to be cautious because of my past but for now I feel that its HUGE. Maybe I found the shinji swim at last. what can be more important than the torso twist?
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Last edited by swimust : 05-23-2013 at 03:19 AM.
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  #16  
Old 05-23-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi swimust

Torso twist is another of your terms that I am not sure about. I think you may mean shoulder rotation, or upper body rotation perhaps. When you're immersed in water it's hard if not impossible to move one part of the body without moving another. I try not to twist any part of my body but to rotate about the longitudinal axis and keep the feet close together. At the finish of the arm stroke I like to feel my hand coming out near my thigh, as a result of the body roll, which is when I bend my elbow to start the recovery. The rotation in the other direction comes, I think, just after the recovering hand enters the water and begins the spear or reach. I think my toe flick comes just after this, but it may be at the same time.The pool I swim at does not permit video (or indeed photography of any kind) in public sessions so I haven't got the luxury of video analysis. I have some rather poor footage of myself swimming in a race ( ha!) but I don't think it's possible to draw any conclusions from it, although I have noted a terrible cross over, which I am constantly trying to eliminate. People tell me my stroke looks quite good, but they are not TI people. In any case it is very slow.
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  #17  
Old 05-23-2013
wolane wolane is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
I don't do any fancy exercises for the shoulders; just shrugging, circling with elbows, raising arms forward and back and to the sides, squeezing the shoulder blades and doing big circles in Tai Chi style.

I also do yoga neck exercises.

I own a set of fairly light dumbbells but don't use them much, and also have a set of resistance bands, which I am planning to use more.
Hi Richard,

I also have pretty bad right/left asymmetry to my front crawl stroke. I am right-handed, and my 50-meter SPL with breathing every two strokes to the left (on right spear) is 3-4 counts lower than with breathing every two strokes to the right.

I have done a lot of single arm drills, which helped some. In doing single arm drills, which greatly magnify the awkwardness of my weak side, I discovered that my asymmetry seems to have less to do with arm strength balance than with the balance in left/right hip-drive coordination. I found that my hip drive to the left (right-hand spear) is much more powerful and controlled than to the right. I also realized from doing single arm drills that the hip-drive/spearing motion is very similar to pitching and swing a bat in baseball, which I play avidly.

I then reasoned that if I started to practice pitching and hitting left-handed, I would get more used to hip-driving to the right (left spearing), as pitching and hitting a ball hard are all about hip driving, especially for a small guy like me. I have since started doing so, and so far it seems to be helping. The good thing about these throwing and hitting exercises is that it works on not just strength, but also control and precision, which I think are important in executing a perfectly timed spear/pull in swimming.

Anyway, just my non-expert's two cents. It might be worth a try to do something similar, like playing tennis left-handed etc.
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  #18  
Old 05-23-2013
swimust swimust is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
Hi swimust

Torso twist is another of your terms that I am not sure about. I think you may mean shoulder rotation, or upper body rotation perhaps. When you're immersed in water it's hard if not impossible to move one part of the body without moving another. I try not to twist any part of my body but to rotate about the longitudinal axis and keep the feet close together. At the finish of the arm stroke I like to feel my hand coming out near my thigh, as a result of the body roll, which is when I bend my elbow to start the recovery. The rotation in the other direction comes, I think, just after the recovering hand enters the water and begins the spear or reach. I think my toe flick comes just after this, but it may be at the same time.The pool I swim at does not permit video (or indeed photography of any kind) in public sessions so I haven't got the luxury of video analysis. I have some rather poor footage of myself swimming in a race ( ha!) but I don't think it's possible to draw any conclusions from it, although I have noted a terrible cross over, which I am constantly trying to eliminate. People tell me my stroke looks quite good, but they are not TI people. In any case it is very slow.
yes, our "torso twist" is similar. I also meant "torso" and not "shoulder". Its simple: Shinji divided the body rotation into two phases and in his dryland drill of the long axis he demonstrated hip roll and torso twist separately. Practically its different than your technique but its based on same TI principals, That's how I understand it.
Basically I say to you to be careful with my stuff but I maybe correct somehow.
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  #19  
Old 05-23-2013
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi wolane

I don't think tennis is going to be much good to me. I was never able to play tennis worth a dam even with my good arm and I don't think I'd be any good with my left arm either. When I did judo I used to practise throws on both sides with some success and of course with various musical instruments you have to use both hands and try to attain equal facility, which is an ideal rather than a realistic goal for most.

Perhaps some exercises with the dumbbells and resistance bands combined with mindful practice of drills will help to equalise the two arms.
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  #20  
Old 05-23-2013
CoachDavidShen CoachDavidShen is offline
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Originally Posted by Richardsk View Post
Hi wolane

I don't think tennis is going to be much good to me. I was never able to play tennis worth a dam even with my good arm and I don't think I'd be any good with my left arm either. When I did judo I used to practise throws on both sides with some success and of course with various musical instruments you have to use both hands and try to attain equal facility, which is an ideal rather than a realistic goal for most.

Perhaps some exercises with the dumbbells and resistance bands combined with mindful practice of drills will help to equalise the two arms.
Why don't you email me at dshen at coachdshen.com and i'll email you some shoulder mobility exercises. these do not require tools like dumbbells. also i'll email you some primitive pattern exercises which will really help your symmetry, which may also be caused by other parts of your body and not just your shoulders.
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