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  #21  
Old 10-12-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashby View Post
OK thats good information thanks. You must agree though that it does seem to be a problem that dogs TI swimmers more than others?
The problem is not with TI swimmers, the problem is only with trying to learn a 2 Beat Kick. The fact that you see it often with TI swimmers speaks WELL of the fact that they are trying to learn a specific kicking style.

See the thread right next to this one about Shinji's 2BK, and you'll see ample evidence that we do not explicitly teach the "kick start" as you call it.

I have one swimmer whose kick is so bad that he is essentially doing a breast stroke kick with every arm stroke. Right arm stroke + both legs kick in frog style. Left arm stroke + both legs kick in frog style.

It's very, very, very hard to break. When we are one on one or two on one we can make progress, but when he is not 100% focused on correcting it he always defaults back to it.

Everyone is a work in progress.
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  #22  
Old 10-15-2012
ashby ashby is offline
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Suzanne, no problem I didn't think that but i was having one of those days to!

Well i don't know about the vast vast majority of swimmers but in my case TI has made me slower and since I feel I am still working pretty hard its made me less efficient too I guess. I used to swim around 6 minutes for 400m but I followed the advice in Terrys book and stopped swim training, just practised and focused on lengthening out my stroke. I'm now at 7 minutes for 400m and to be honest right now I think I would struggle to hit that.

One particular quote stuck in my mind from Terry's book: But hard swim training makes no sense at all the average triathlete whose best bet is to never, never, never swim hard. There's a word for triathletes who work hard during the swim leg. They're called losers.

Pretty strong stuff and for years I believed that but now I'm beginning to doubt it as the results just aren't coming. No matter about my neural circuits or how much I practice parting molecules and in the meantime some of my triathlon buddies have gone from 6 minutes to 5:30 for 400m and totally annihilate me in races, I'm coming out 10 minutes behind after the swim with no chance of catching them. Super frustrating!

I dunno I'm wondering if TI isnt suited to triathlon at all?
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  #23  
Old 10-15-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Originally Posted by ashby View Post

I dunno I'm wondering if TI isnt suited to triathlon at all?
Ashby, there is another thread here started by "Smat" who had similar concerns. There is a ton of great advice in that thread about how to go about getting the speed back after working on technique.

TI is definitley for triathlons & Triathletes...but if you feel like you are struggling more or using more energy, post some videos for us to critique.

Do you use a tempo trainer in your practice?

Visit the "favorite sets & practices" thread for tons of ways to get faster.
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Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

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  #24  
Old 10-16-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ashby View Post
I dunno I'm wondering if TI isnt suited to triathlon at all?
Clearly, if one's idea of TI stroke is that displayed by Shinji in the clip set that made him famous? If one goes like Wow this is the final destination, I want to get there, then wait for the horn and dive open water and try to swim the whole leg with only a third of the stroke count the other display? The answer to this question is a definite no, with no possibility of negociation.

NO that won't work. Period.

This is where some people get lost. Streamlining my friend, is only one part of the swim equation. Then you need to ensure that you distribute power evenly.

Follow what Shinji does in a more global way. Those clips rock, but his actual path, training path and approach goes far beyond a man crossing the pool in 9 stroke. I can find you 5 guys that can do that in our varsity level club, with minimal training. Shinji is accelerating the rate at the mo, finding best fits for triathlon. Follow his works, and you'll have your answer.

Read Terry's blog. A mention at one point about trying to get the rate up to 65spm, facing rough conditions in the English Channel. TI is a weapon, but if you only use it to swim with grace at 1.4, you'll get nowhere in choppy conditions, unless you have the torque of Petar Stoichev.

Last edited by CharlesCouturier : 10-16-2012 at 02:11 AM.
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  #25  
Old 10-16-2012
smat smat is offline
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Hi, just empathizing with you. Another friend has joined our swim group of 2now making it 3. Our TI mentor keeps reassuring me , but i also have severe doubts as i also used to do 400 in 7 mins and now after 2 years of TI practice i would be lucky if i did 9 mins so our experiences are similiar. My mentor is going on a TI coaching course soon so no doubt he will come back with some new ideas. I tried the tempo but it did not suit me as it confused me even more..Sorry Andy. I keep asking myself HOW LONG. My mentors quote is that" i have the rest of my life to practice"... what to fail. My thoughts are with you.
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  #26  
Old 10-16-2012
CharlesCouturier CharlesCouturier is offline
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Do you mean you've try working with a tempo trainer and it did not suit you as it confused you?
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  #27  
Old 10-16-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smat View Post
Hi, just empathizing with you. Another friend has joined our swim group of 2now making it 3. Our TI mentor keeps reassuring me , but i also have severe doubts as i also used to do 400 in 7 mins and now after 2 years of TI practice i would be lucky if i did 9 mins so our experiences are similiar. My mentor is going on a TI coaching course soon so no doubt he will come back with some new ideas. I tried the tempo but it did not suit me as it confused me even more..Sorry Andy. I keep asking myself HOW LONG. My mentors quote is that" i have the rest of my life to practice"... what to fail. My thoughts are with you.
Where are you based SMAT? once you see the light your doubts will go forever. I think a lot of people who feel like giving up are the ones who haven't felt the surge through the water when you get the spear, rotation and opposite arm all timed together. That's the drug, once you have experienced that, time does become irrelevant.
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  #28  
Old 10-16-2012
Ghul Ghul is offline
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It sounds as if you are swimming at a speed that would be more appropriate
for drilling. As Charles alluded above it is good to have the skill to be able
to swim a length at a very low stroke count but the appropriate count for
a race may be rather higher. The tempo trainer gives a systematic way of
working out how many strokes it is worth trading for speed but if that doesn't
suit you try upping your turnover gradually without one and see whether speed improves. Probably it's better to try over (say) 100m rather than 25m as short distances can be misleading as to what is sustainable.
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  #29  
Old 10-16-2012
smat smat is offline
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Thanks Andy . I will go back tom as i am too far in to go back. I was telling my mentor you are the nicest blogger i have ever read. If you do get to Brighton would like to meet up for swim. Thanks again and as usual you are right i have not felt those feelings in the water and after 2 years of trying you can understand how frustrating it is.
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  #30  
Old 10-17-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smat View Post
Hi, just empathizing with you. Another friend has joined our swim group of 2now making it 3. Our TI mentor keeps reassuring me , but i also have severe doubts as i also used to do 400 in 7 mins and now after 2 years of TI practice i would be lucky if i did 9 mins so our experiences are similiar. My mentor is going on a TI coaching course soon so no doubt he will come back with some new ideas. I tried the tempo but it did not suit me as it confused me even more..Sorry Andy. I keep asking myself HOW LONG. My mentors quote is that" i have the rest of my life to practice"... what to fail. My thoughts are with you.
Smat, what is your background with success in learning things that take skill and precision to learn?

Music, foreign languages, carving, drawing. Perhaps you are not naturally drawn to such things?

In which case, you may get a lot more from focusing on another aerobic sport like cycling where there is a lot more to be gained from 'go hard or go home' approach? (once you learn to sit right on the bike, acquire a smooth fast cadence, understand gear ratios, study wind resistance mechanics.........I'm kidding).

You can also try doubling up the tempo on the tempo trainer as it can be tricky to 'feel' the beat initially, especially at tempos below 1.0

So if you want to swim at tempo 1.3, put the tempo trainer on 0.65 and stroke every 2 beats.

Finally, I think i've asked you this before and probably suzanne has too, if you were to go back to your old stroke, what would that mean that is different to what you perceive a TI stroke to be? this could be your sticking point?
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