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  #21  
Old 04-07-2011
AWP AWP is offline
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Funny you should mention this, just tonight I observed a fellow TI swimmer do just that!
Periodically I'll point things out for her. She's quiet and keeps to herself and not sure she takes any input given so I wait until she instigates.
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  #22  
Old 04-07-2011
CSLEE CSLEE is offline
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Default two beat kick

I mentioned about two-beat-kick to my son's coach, he cannot imagine how to propel the body with just two kickings for each stroke, neither do I, I tried to do it, but my body sinks severely as the i can't keep up the momentum and speed.

what's wrong? is it I am too slow or my kick was too soft? should I kick harder to get the propulsion?

pls advice
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  #23  
Old 04-07-2011
RadSwim RadSwim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CSLEE View Post
what's wrong? is it I am too slow or my kick was too soft? should I kick harder to get the propulsion?

pls advice
In a word -- BALANCE. To use a minimal, rotational kick effectively, you must be balanced in the water and NOT rely on your kick to raise up your legs. Strong core muscles and learning how to throw you weight forward are key skills. Gliding and skating drills are tools to improve balance.

Good luck,
RadSwim

Last edited by RadSwim : 04-07-2011 at 11:30 PM.
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  #24  
Old 04-07-2011
Fran Lehen Fran Lehen is offline
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My kick had this dysfunction early on, and I have pointed this error out to 3 swimming buddies...perhaps it is a fairly common error.


Thank you for your input. I will have some one watch me.

Fran
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  #25  
Old 04-08-2011
DesertDog DesertDog is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RadSwim View Post
Stated another way, the swimmer always kicks left foot first, even when intending to kick only with the right.
RadSwim
I used to do that. It took a long time to figure out what was wrong and then trying to fix it. I've taken to wearing flippers for a 300 to try and get the correct feeling when kicking with the right leg, and also letting the kick initiate the hip rotation.
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  #26  
Old 04-09-2011
tab tab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachKris View Post
once again I'm going to use my video to show you my point of view on that matter ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeBYur3k6_0

1 bottom leg flick initiate rotation
2 hips rotation
3 shoulders rotation
4 arm spears in

all this happens nearly simultaneously but if we are looking for chain that would take you through whole rotation thats the way I'm doing it ;)
Again, thanks CoachKris. This is an excellent depiction. I learned a lot from it. Something else I have come to question within the sequence is where does the breath come into the sequence, on the breathing stroke?

I feel some what comfortable breathing on my left side, I think the breath comes in just before the hand sweeps past my face. My Right side is rather lame and doesn't work as well. It is odd that I can't recall exactly how thing work when not in the water and performing the action, I am almost operating on a "feeling". I compare it to operating hydraulic levers on a piece of machinery, I have to place my hands on the levers and make the machine work to recall exactly what that individual levers task is.

Yesterday I donned my stubby fins and tried to focus on this aspect I think it helped, it would be nice to know for sure if this is correct, breathing just before the hand sweeps past.

Fins with a two beat kick is almost effortless, just the slightest flip send me on the way, the propulsion needed to concentrate on other matters. But I fear they could become addictive, so I removed them after a few laps. Once back in the water it took a lap to recover and recognize I can still swim with out them and in fact I believe they helped. If I may ask another question, can a person become addicted to swimming aids?
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  #27  
Old 04-10-2011
DD_l_enclume DD_l_enclume is offline
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Depending on the coach and the video, the sequence looks different.
For example here : TI Coach Gadi in "How to develop an Effective Catch"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9FwQA3g_Ak

He looks almost flat when the feet kicks.
I feel like the rotation starts with the spearing arm, and then the kick adds propulsion.

He looks so easy on this video, but he's doing 14SPL and 25s per 25m, way faster than me at full speed !

Clearly a sign that good balance and coordination is the priority.
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  #28  
Old 04-11-2011
DesertDog DesertDog is offline
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Default Which is correct??

This is interesting. Here we have video from two different TI coaches. One from Coach Kris:

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachKris View Post
once again I'm going to use my video to show you my point of view on that matter ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AeBYur3k6_0

1 bottom leg flick initiate rotation
2 hips rotation
3 shoulders rotation
4 arm spears in

all this happens nearly simultaneously but if we are looking for chain that would take you through whole rotation thats the way I'm doing it ;)
His video shows the initiation of the hip rotation coming from the kick.


Another video from Coach Gadi:

Quote:
Originally Posted by DD_l_enclume View Post
Depending on the coach and the video, the sequence looks different.
For example here : TI Coach Gadi in "How to develop an Effective Catch"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9FwQA3g_Ak

He looks almost flat when the feet kicks.
I feel like the rotation starts with the spearing arm, and then the kick adds propulsion.

He looks so easy on this video, but he's doing 14SPL and 25s per 25m, way faster than me at full speed !

Clearly a sign that good balance and coordination is the priority.
His video shows the initiation of hip rotation coming from the skewing of the arm and then the kick finishing the hip rotation.

Which one is better? Or are both equally valid ways of approaching the TI stroke? Should we just pick the approach that feels better or should we strive for one or the other?
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  #29  
Old 04-11-2011
borate borate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DesertDog View Post
This is interesting. Here we have video from two different TI coaches... Should we just pick the approach that feels better or should we strive for one or the other?
The variation you cite may relate to degree of 'patient hand' (catch up) and speed. Gadi's strikes me as being drill-like...very patient, for demonstration.

As Kris notes, "...all this happens simultaneously." The body is maximally rotated as the hand is cleanly pulled from the water.
Opposite rotation then begins with recovery.

When the hand enters above the head, nearly in-line with the shoulder vertically, a simultaneous kick on the opposite side helps to further torque the body -
driving the hip down and the spearing arm to full extension. This is a weight shift that channels power from toe to fingertip, aiding propulsion.

At least that's my take. See if you conclude the same here in the sections where Terry seemingly swims effortlessly at a normal pace.
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  #30  
Old 04-11-2011
DD_l_enclume DD_l_enclume is offline
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At :52 and 1:16 (the slomo part), I can see the same sequence as in coach Gadi : rotation is already ongoing when kick happens.

The question is whether this is real swimming or just a drill that gives the swimmer a feeling of how the stroke should feel.(That's fast drill anyway compare to my level.)
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