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  #11  
Old 09-09-2011
dshen dshen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomoy View Post
DSHEN, Your comment regarding touching toes is pushing me to ask... has anyone taken this step further and overlapped their feet during glide?

During casual filming, I notice that my legs seem further apart than they should be, but my toes can touch easily. I think it's mostly because I'm bow-legged. I can draw my legs closer together w/o much effort, but in order to do this, my feet cross to when the sole of one foot touches the instep of the other (top of one foot to bottom of the other). I spent a couple laps fascinated by this but I couldn't tell if it was making me more streamlined. And the un-crossing in order to kick was taking a lot of concentration.

Sorry for going off-topic.
no worries about going off topic!

honestly i have never heard of what you describe from any other swimmer. i would think that if your feet crossed over, it may interfere with kicking if one foot happened to be in front of the other when you decided to kick with foot behind.

OTOH, i don't think your big toes need to touch in order for your feet/legs to be trailing behind your body's "shadow" or wake while moving forward in the water. you just don't want them splayed out so wide that they are producing drag.

i bring up the big toes touching as one way i have found to keep some sort of attention and feedback that my feet aren't just spread out back there but are in the right place. i would imagine that others may have found other similar tools to train their legs/feet to be behind their body's shadow/wake; or some are just lucky enough not to need to worry about it.

truthfully, i use this technique less now as my legs have now ingrained how to be in my body's wake, but now evidence must be obtained not by the fact that my big toes are touching but through video since i can't very well look down and between my legs behind me while swimming to check!

i think the idea is to find some sort of method that works for you, whose result is the desired one. and if that doesn't work, try something else...
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  #12  
Old 09-09-2011
TomH TomH is offline
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I have a tendency to keep my feet spread apart during the glide, so I recently started doing a "toe tap" drill as you describe. After the kick, I try to tap the top of my toes on the kicking foot against the bottom of the toes on the other foot. It is a much more noticeable sensation, and for me easier to accomplish than trying to match up the feet next to each other with the big toes lined up. I do this only as a drill, attempting to imprint better kicking technique into my muscle memory. Hopefully, some day my feet will return to neutral position for the glide without me having to think about it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by tomoy View Post
DSHEN, Your comment regarding touching toes is pushing me to ask... has anyone taken this step further and overlapped their feet during glide?

During casual filming, I notice that my legs seem further apart than they should be, but my toes can touch easily. I think it's mostly because I'm bow-legged. I can draw my legs closer together w/o much effort, but in order to do this, my feet cross to when the sole of one foot touches the instep of the other (top of one foot to bottom of the other). I spent a couple laps fascinated by this but I couldn't tell if it was making me more streamlined. And the un-crossing in order to kick was taking a lot of concentration.

Sorry for going off-topic.
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  #13  
Old 10-22-2011
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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I get the idea--right arm pulls, right leg kick. But somewhere in a thread someone suggested doing SG and isolating the kick. This would give you the feel of the rotation of the hip. Problem is, when I kick with right leg, my right hip goes down instead of up. I have to make a conscious effort to do the opposite of what seems natural. When I combine the right arm pull, the arm pull seems the stronger and drives the right hip up. Also if I hang on to the side of pool and just kick, the kicking leg drives the same side hip up. Am I constructed differently or has someone else experienced the same type of knee jerk?
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  #14  
Old 10-22-2011
jenson1a jenson1a is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenson1a View Post
I get the idea--right arm pulls, right leg kick. But somewhere in a thread someone suggested doing SG and isolating the kick. This would give you the feel of the rotation of the hip. Problem is, when I kick with right leg, my right hip goes down instead of up. I have to make a conscious effort to do the opposite of what seems natural. When I combine the right arm pull, the arm pull seems the stronger and drives the right hip up. Also if I hang on to the side of pool and just kick, the kicking leg drives the same side hip up. Am I constructed differently or has someone else experienced the same type of knee jerk?
OOps regarding holding side of pool and kicking, when right leg kicks, right hip goes down
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  #15  
Old 10-22-2011
borate borate is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenson1a View Post
OOps regarding holding side of pool and kicking, when right leg kicks, right hip goes down
Check out this for some kick pointers.
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  #16  
Old 10-22-2011
swim2Bfree swim2Bfree is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by galax View Post
I realize that my stroke per lenght is better in 4bk: any advice?
When you refer to a 4-beat kick, what are you doing exactly? I ask because if you are (correctly) spearing with the opposite hand as the kick, only 2-bk and 6-bk are possible. Unless you're doing some funky off-rhythm thing, e.g., 1 kick w/ 1 arm-stroke combined with 3 kicks on the other arm-stroke.
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  #17  
Old 10-22-2011
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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Hi swim2B free

I believe that the "normal" four beat is as you describe; three beats on one leg and one on the other. It is often seen in distance swimmers. I suppose it IS possible to swim with, as it were, a split two-beat, but I can't say I've ever tried it. I'd imagine that the lift of the opposite leg might weaken the down kick, but perhaps it does that in the six-beat too? It is generally accepted that only the down kick is propulsive, but some claim that in the dolphin kick the up kick can also be propulsive. In my dolphin kick I don't think there's much propulsion on up OR down, but that's neither here no there.
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  #18  
Old 02-25-2013
voice of raisin voice of raisin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenson1a View Post
I have been using the 2 beat kick for about 4 months. I thought I was doing fairly well with it, but when I was viewing a video of the young Japanese man's freestyle, I noticed that the right hand entered water, the left foot kicked. I had been doing it completely the opposite--right hand in, right foot kick. This seemed perfectly natural to me.

By kicking with the same foot that the hand was spearing, it seemed that I was getting more propulsion. Is this completely wrong? I am assuming it is, but can't figure out why. I have read several posts and it seems that there are a lot of people that have different ideas about when to kick with which foot.

Also as far as the kick goes, is it a downward kick or upward or like a scissors? Watched several videos on you tube and have seen a variety of styles.

Appreciate any thoughts on this--hopefully there is some agreement on how to do this kick.
its been a month since i got hold of TI dvds and i could now do a comfortable 800m freestyle when just weeks ago my limit was 50m! thank you terry!

my pace is very slow though (2:30min for 100m) so i watched the dvd again, and realised i have the same problem as you jenson. I think what made me kick that way was lesson 9.1 in the perpetual motion dvd where the instruction was to move your right hip to spear with your right hand, and move your left hip to pull the arm back. That made me assume its same-side kick-and-spear all the way. I'll use the responses above to set things right and see if it makes me go any faster....
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  #19  
Old 03-06-2013
yearn2swim yearn2swim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jenson1a View Post
OOps regarding holding side of pool and kicking, when right leg kicks, right hip goes down
It helped me to get the hang of the 2 beat kick by concentrating on hip rotation. Using your example, if you are spearing with your left hand, concentrate on rotating the right hip up and don't worry about your kick. Once you get the feeling down, then think about how you flick your right leg/foot to help the right hip go up instead of down like it's doing now.

Remember, the whole point is to drive rotation and forward momentum transfer. Instead of working it from the "start" of the transfer (the kick), concentrate on how the transfer feels from your hip through your core to your spearing arm.

Hope that helps.

Mike
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  #20  
Old 03-16-2013
CoachLuisaFonseca CoachLuisaFonseca is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomoy View Post
DSHEN, Your comment regarding touching toes is pushing me to ask... has anyone taken this step further and overlapped their feet during glide?

During casual filming, I notice that my legs seem further apart than they should be, but my toes can touch easily. I think it's mostly because I'm bow-legged. I can draw my legs closer together w/o much effort, but in order to do this, my feet cross to when the sole of one foot touches the instep of the other (top of one foot to bottom of the other). I spent a couple laps fascinated by this but I couldn't tell if it was making me more streamlined. And the un-crossing in order to kick was taking a lot of concentration.

Sorry for going off-topic.
Hi Tomoy

Yeah, I have experimented overlapping by feet after I kick. I am bow-legged as well, I guess that makes our feet point more inwards than people with complete straight legs. I tried it as an exageration of the most common exercise of getting the feet or toes together. It helps you to become more aware of balance issues, and can help you create a more compact kick. Yes, having to uncross it makes it a bit "unnatural", and obviously, your legs are not as relaxed, and it requires some ankle and foot flexibility.

I think it's interesting to try.
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