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  #91  
Old 07-07-2017
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Excellent and good to hear Danny. Still try to work in faster tempos on 25's even if you go out of green zone, i.e.. 1.2, 1.15, 1.10, 1.05, 1.0. This will help clean up added/unnecessary recovery arm movements that are causing you imbalances. Ascend back up to 1.2 on 25's (1.05, 1.1, 1.15, 1.2) and you will probably experience the 1.2, 1.15 tempos that felt a bit rushed as you descended may feel not as rushed or possibly sustainable. The only thing that's holding back from sub 2:00/100m is excess drag, hips low, posture breaking, triggered primarily from a stunted recovery and its path.

Keep up the good work and you will get there!

Stuart
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  #92  
Old 07-07-2017
Streak Streak is offline
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Hi Danny. Like you I am also concerned about my SPL vs RPE for various TT settings.
The pyramid set that Stuart mentions above really does work.
I do struggle at a TT of 1.0 but the when I Start coming down again, 1.15 feels like 1.2 etc. etc.

I am at a point now where I can stay in my green zone regardless of stroke rate. So it can be as low as 14 at a casual 1.3 pace where my 100 yard time is about 1:45 or as high as 17 at about 1.20 where my 100 yard time is in the mid 1:30's. As I push the stroke rate closer to 1.0 the gains start diminishing and I start getting too tired.

I managed to do this by picking a comfortable stroke rate, say 1.3 and doing 100's while increasing the rate by .02 per 100 until my SPL started to increase. If it was still within the green zone then I continued. As soon as the SPL started getting too high it was time for a rest and to re-examine what I was doing at the higher tempo that could be causing this.

Stuart pointed out a bit of a hip hitch which I think I have now corrected. Also, as I got tired I tended to approach the center line and become more hand led as opposed to elbow led on my recovery and probably started over rotating.

Now and again I try a few 50 yard sprints and manage to do them in about 40 seconds which is a 1:20 per hundred pace. However don't even try and talk to me after these!

So, my question is that if I am able to achieve a 100 yard pace of between 1:20 and 1:30 over shorter distances, what do I need to do to be able to do the same over longer ones? Getting fitter is one obvious way, ironing out any inefficiencies is another way.

I have watched my 1650 time decrease over the years as my technique has improved. Right now I am sort of stuck at about 28 minutes which is a 1:41 per 100 rate. This is in a 25 yard pool doing touch turns.

I am enjoying your discussion with Stuart, keep up the hard work.
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  #93  
Old 07-07-2017
Danny Danny is offline
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Hi Joel,

In increasing your stroke rate and still staying in the green zone, did you focus on 100s exclusively, or did you try to swim longer distances as well?

I usually do a series of 6X50 in descending TT times, starting at 1.3 and ending at 1.2 in steps of .02 s/stroke. I can do these at a faster pace and lower SPL than the longer distances. Then I shift over to 300 intervals, and slowly increase the TT in steps of .02 for each 300, although lately when I get to 1.26 s I am feeling comfortable enough so that I don't feel a need to increase the TT any further.

I'd be interested in how you approach this issue. How often do you swim a straight 1650 without interruptions? Do you use the TT for the 1650? Do you have trouble keeping count of laps or are you using a Garmin or something similar?
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  #94  
Old 07-07-2017
Streak Streak is offline
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Hi Danny,
When using the TT, the furthest I swim is 100 intervals.
In fact like you I have been forcing myself to try even shorter intervals like 50s so I can really concentrate on the pyramid exercise at hand. I find the TT a bit of an intrusion at longer distances and it starts to annoy me.

I only do the 1650s every few months to see if the corrections I am making on my shorter interval sessions will show improvements on the mile swim. They certainly have to date going from 40 minutes to where I am now. No TT used for these sessions.

I use the Garmin swim to help count the laps having an odd glance at the watch to see roughly where I am.

What I plan to do one of these days is after a short warm up (200 yards) is start the session at a tempo of 1.0s and work down. I want to see how things work out while I am still fresh.

By the way I am 57 years old, just over 6' and 200lbs. I have never been the fast twitch muscle kind of exerciser, slow and deliberate has been what works for my body type.

I do think though that I have a breathing issue. It affects my swimming but is not swimming related. One of these days I will have another (had one done about 8 years ago) stress ECG done to see if there is anything obvious and to try and find out if it's cardiac or pulmonary related.
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  #95  
Old 07-08-2017
Danny Danny is offline
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Hi Joel, thanks for sharing your info. It's interesting to compare notes. When you swim the 100s, how much rest do you give yourself between them? Up until now, when I swim 50s, I wait as long as I feel I need to in order to be fresh again for the next interval, but I am considering doing something like, for example, 6X50 yd on 1:10, aiming at 0:55s or below which would give me at least 15 s rest. This, of course, is starting to look more like USRPT.

One problem I have with strategies like this is that I find keeping track of the clock very stressful and I think that it may take more out of me than the swimming itself. I have a cheap waterproof watch and I use the stop watch option on it to time myself.
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  #96  
Old 07-08-2017
Streak Streak is offline
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When I do the first 6x100 drill I do it at an interval of 1:50.
So if I get back in 1:40 I have a 10s rest before heading off again.
If my swim buddy is there we then rest for a number of minutes and then set off on another 6x100 on 1:50 but at a faster tempo doing these in about 1:36 per 100.

If I am doing the TT pyramid drills I wait a minute or so between TT changes.
Pulse rate is usually around 130-140 at the higher tempos recovering to under 120 after a minute.

It really baffles me how many folks here manage to keep a record of all of their stats after a swim. Even with my swim watch, by the time I get home I cant remember what was what except of course if I take a written routine with me.

Does your pool have pool clock? If so there is an easy method to time the 1:50 intervals. If not then using the TT on mode 2 setting it to say 1:50. Of course this means that you now wont have the tempo beeps but it will beep once it gets to 1:50 so you know that you need to set off on your next 100.

Hope this helps.

Joel
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  #97  
Old 07-08-2017
Danny Danny is offline
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I have to laugh at the thought of myself trying to use the pool clock with 10s rest between intervals, because I have tried something like this. It means that I have to stick my head out of the water at the end, orient myself in order to find the pool clock, take some time to interpret what the results are, then go back into the water and get in position for a push-off. All of that probably takes me more than 10 s already! (Perhaps this gives an indication of why I am such a slow swimmer!) To tell the truth, it is probably easier for me to forget looking at the pool clock and just swim the 600 straight :o)

I forgot one important aspect of this... I wear glasses, but not under my goggles. This makes reading the pool clock a lot harder :o(
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  #98  
Old 07-08-2017
gary p gary p is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danny View Post
I have to laugh at the thought of myself trying to use the pool clock with 10s rest between intervals, because I have tried something like this. It means that I have to stick my head out of the water at the end, orient myself in order to find the pool clock, take some time to interpret what the results are, then go back into the water and get in position for a push-off. All of that probably takes me more than 10 s already! (Perhaps this gives an indication of why I am such a slow swimmer!) To tell the truth, it is probably easier for me to forget looking at the pool clock and just swim the 600 straight :o)

I forgot one important aspect of this... I wear glasses, but not under my goggles. This makes reading the pool clock a lot harder :o(
Use a finger stopwatch to record your times, and use the pace clock for the interval. You don't even have to be exact on the send-off time, since you are using the stop watch to get the pace times. Speedo Vanquisher Optical goggles are an affordable solution for vision issues. I can't see the pace clock without correction, and I don't ever wear contacts. These speedo goggles have been a godsend. I think I have 5 pairs; 1 each of nearly-new tinted and clear in my "meet" bag, an older pair of each in my "training" bag, and one more in the little "emergency bag" I keep in the trunk of my car in the event I get a chance to swim but haven't brought my regular training bag.
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  #99  
Old 07-08-2017
Streak Streak is offline
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I hear you Danny. My distance vision is perfect, it's the close up which is a bit of a problem but I can at least still read my watch if I squint a little!

If you can position yourself close to the lap clock.
Set off on your 50 at the top (12) when you get back (2x50) the clock will be approaching your 1:10 which will be when the second hand hits the 10s mark.
When it gets there, set off for your next 50.
When you get back the second hand will be approaching the 20s mark which will be another 1:10.
And so on until your last set when you head off on the 50s mark.
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  #100  
Old 07-09-2017
Danny Danny is offline
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Gary, thanks for pointing all of this out. The finger stopwatch looks interesting and I'll have to check it out.

Joel, what I'm suspecting is that it would be easier for me to simply time my intervals and then count to 10 or 15 mississippi in my head. I'll have to experiment.
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