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  #11  
Old 03-20-2017
sclim sclim is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hi Rajan,

As Dave noted, shoulder is moving (body's rotating), chin is going with it. Often swimmers make the mistake, rotation begins and head chases shoulder to air - this is a late breath and makes it difficult to breathe and disrupts stroke rhythm - almost as if the head is banging around between the shoulders.

Here's a good video from GoSwim on "Shoulder "Breath": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_7wx06VsSM I like how GS describes the breath timing, but I don't encourage sticking chin to shoulder - there should always be a space between shoulder and cheek/chin large enough to hold a small apple.

Stuart
I understand from TI other coaches too that this space is the prescribed TI method. I would like, if possible, some explanation why sticking the chin to the shoulder does not result in less overall drag.
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  #12  
Old 03-20-2017
Rajan Rajan is offline
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Hi!

One more thing I want to ask. Pushing the water starts only after downward kick. I am visualizing like this :

My recovery hand is wrist deep in water due to gravity and at the same time, my leading hand and forearm is in catch position. From this point I must launch spear by downward kick. The moment I kick downward, I will get final rotation and shoulder will move out resulting which my leading hand and forearm, which was in catch position before downward kick, now will come to a position where my spearing arm shoulder is and simultaneiously my recovery arm move forward. After that I will be pushing water up to my fee and recovery starts.

Is that right?





Quote:
Originally Posted by daveblt View Post
You should prepare to START the roll to breathe at the START of the downward kick and NOT after the kick which is the same time your pulling hand is starting to pull back .In freestyle try to breathe as early as possible .

Dave

Last edited by Rajan : 03-20-2017 at 08:43 AM.
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  #13  
Old 03-20-2017
daveblt daveblt is offline
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What you describe sounds correct , with of course core and hip rotation that work with the kick .

Dave
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  #14  
Old 03-21-2017
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sclim View Post
I understand from TI other coaches too that this space is the prescribed TI method. I would like, if possible, some explanation why sticking the chin to the shoulder does not result in less overall drag.
Hi Sclim,

I don't think having space between shoulder and cheek is in any of the documentation. Coach Jai in the UK brought it to my attention when I was extending my (left) lead arm from my shoulder triggering tension in shoulder and neck. As a consequence, my left shoulder was stuck to my cheek. This tension triggered lead arm to point slightly toward mid-line, not parallel to direction of travel. This is the case with the swimmer in Shoulder Breath demo, lead arm pointing slightly toward mid-line. Alternatively, swimmers with the "cheek to shoulder" focus, the head will move toward shoulder causing head-spine misalignment. The head moves left and right on each stroke. Neither are desirable positions and both create unnecessary added movements to manage.

As for streamline, drag - I don't think either position (space or no space between check and shoulder) will have much of an affect, but arm and/or head out of alignment will cause body to yaw (steer) left and right.

Stand in front of mirror in skate position, do cheek to shoulder rehearsal. Move (stick) head to shoulder, head will tilt toward shoulder. Likewise move just arm/shoulder to cheek, lead arm no longer parallel to posture line. Then allow shoulder to sit in its socket no tension (no extended shoulder) and see space between cheek and shoulder, head-spine aligned, arm on parallel track.

Stuart

Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 03-21-2017 at 12:59 AM.
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  #15  
Old 03-21-2017
fooboo fooboo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
extending my (left) lead arm from my shoulder triggering tension in shoulder and neck. As a consequence, my left shoulder was stuck to my cheek. This tension triggered lead arm to point slightly toward mid-line, not parallel to direction of travel.
I found a solution, that works for me.
Leading arm extended, with shoulder in high position, to be in line with the
rest of the body. That arm is in inner rotation, preventing mid-line crossing.
How shoulder comes close to the cheek? Body rotates with leading arm down.
Head stays put and touches the shoulder. Head is not tensed, but relaxed,
on the water layer.
Leading arm for me stays extended long, till body rotates to the other side.
Then it anchors.
Best regards.
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  #16  
Old 03-21-2017
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Hi Fooboo,

It's not that your head/neck have tension, your head and shoulder are colliding due to 1. extending shoulder forward, 2. over rotating, or 3. some combination of those two. My issue was with extending or reaching with my left (low side) shoulder which triggers tension (in shoulder) to extend. Allow shoulder to sit back in its socket, relaxed and soft. There should be a space between cheek and (low side) shoulder on every stroke.

Stuart
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  #17  
Old 03-23-2017
fooboo fooboo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
It's not that your head/neck have tension, your head and shoulder are colliding due to 1. extending shoulder forward, 2. over rotating, or 3. some combination of those two. My issue was with extending or reaching with my left (low side) shoulder which triggers tension (in shoulder) to extend. Allow shoulder to sit back in its socket, relaxed and soft. There should be a space between cheek and (low side) shoulder on every stroke.
I took a day to think about, before answering.
The best shoulder position for me I found going breast stroke. With high shoulder
I glide far longer, since drag is lower. I forced it to freestyle. At first it was not
obvious. It is harder to keep, but drag is lower again. Relaxed? Not tensed.
Regarding over-rotation, I do understand your point. Going to almost 90
degrees, like on Boomer video, I keep low drag. Inner rotation is difference
from Boomer's swimmer. I do not cross the mid line. Also, I tend to extend my
legs. Not tense them, just extend. It helps me to keep balance.
At the moment, I feel better with straight arm recovery. Sounds more logical
and enables "throw" of the same side. I will find the way to bend the elbow
and do the same momentum. Somewhere in between, I always loose breathing.
I pretty much like to read your post and always find something to implement.
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