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  #11  
Old 11-14-2012
johynr]]] johynr]]] is offline
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Great posts but I don't understand how I can open the axila and at the same time bring the shoulder blades down and away from the ears.
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  #12  
Old 11-14-2012
russellw russellw is offline
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Hi all

This is to Coach Ingrid, Coach Suzanne and Coach David for starting this thread and to all others who have contributed.

Today I had only 5 minutes in the pool (it's a run day today !), and positioned my body with shoulders back, chest out and tummy in ......, today for 5 minutes I was BALANCED !!!!!!!!!!!

SG was much better, SF felt great, so did skate on both sides. Head felt relaxed, hips higher, so were my feet. Instant, different feelings !!!!

I'm not saying I gave cracked balance by a long shot, but it has given me something to take into the next session.

I have gained more from this 5 minutes than in the last 6 months. Just goes to prove we can take encouragement out of the shortest if sessions !!!

Thanks to you all !!!

Russ
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  #13  
Old 11-15-2012
CoachDavidShen CoachDavidShen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachIngridMiller View Post
Hey David,

I have been taking Pilates/researching it a bit and the postural teachings are amazingly helpful and quite simple- something to possibly add to your experiments.
Good posture is, I think, "pressing the chest" and it goes like this. Seat the head over the hips rather than chin jutting forward--think more like "double chin" position. Lengthen the neck with the imaginary string at the crown of the head. Slide shoulder blades down and away from the ears. Expand the chest sideways (not forward). Suck in the abdominals, bringing the belly button near the spine. With loads of practice you can do this in a flash and it feels terrific on land and very speedy in the water.
What you describe is very much like Brugger's Postural Relief Exercise. It's a very simple exercise and one you should do for 10 seconds every 20-30 minutes.

The idea is that you need to reactivate your muscles to be firing and support your spine in the proper position. Sitting in front of a computer for too long can create that arc/bend which ruins posture, and also shortens the muscles in the front of the body (ie. pecs, shoulders) and overstretches/weakens the muscles in the back such that you cannot maintain a true neutral spine position in the water.

It is my belief that addressing this can help your balance in the water, as well as helping you have the capability to "press the chest" since your muscles are now capable of creating that movement and position.
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  #14  
Old 11-15-2012
CoachIngridMiller CoachIngridMiller is offline
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David,

You were the one that first pointed this out for me and I can't thank you enough. Working on my posture has transformed my cycling and running too. It is a challenge to be aware of and constantly correcting posture as you swim, bike and run but it can be done.

I also think one must commit to changing their posture all the time. It must be something we constantly correct until it becomes natural which could take a long time! I finally took the plunge and changed my workstation. I put an old end-table on top of my desk so half of the desk is standard height and the other half is stand-up height. In the morning I am not allowed to sit as I work. I stand, move my legs around and constantly correct my posture. Then in the afternoon I am allowed to sit (move my PC down to the lower level) but only on a Swiss Ball. Every little bit helps.
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  #15  
Old 11-15-2012
CoachIngridMiller CoachIngridMiller is offline
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Originally Posted by johynr]]] View Post
Great posts but I don't understand how I can open the axila and at the same time bring the shoulder blades down and away from the ears.
It is important, after you slide the shoulder blades back, that you then correct the likely arch in your back by compressing the lower ribs in from the sides together ( pressing the chest down rather than forward) and scooping the abdominals. This final move removes the "banana" shape and allows you to open the axilla. The key is keeping the shoulder blades laying flat on the back rather than hunching them up towards your ears.
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  #16  
Old 11-15-2012
bx bx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachIngridMiller View Post
It is important, after you slide the shoulder blades back, that you then correct the likely arch in your back by compressing the lower ribs in from the sides together ( pressing the chest down rather than forward) and scooping the abdominals. This final move removes the "banana" shape and allows you to open the axilla. The key is keeping the shoulder blades laying flat on the back rather than hunching them up towards your ears.
So, this stuff about retracting shoulder blades, is this new official TI teaching? And does it only apply to the Superman Glide drill, or do we swim like this too? It seems new to me, unless I missed something...?

And, do we retract scapulae first, and then reach forwards as far as possible, feeling a slight stretch in the lead arm / arms?
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  #17  
Old 11-16-2012
CoachDavidShen CoachDavidShen is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachIngridMiller View Post
David,

You were the one that first pointed this out for me and I can't thank you enough. Working on my posture has transformed my cycling and running too. It is a challenge to be aware of and constantly correcting posture as you swim, bike and run but it can be done.

I also think one must commit to changing their posture all the time. It must be something we constantly correct until it becomes natural which could take a long time! I finally took the plunge and changed my workstation. I put an old end-table on top of my desk so half of the desk is standard height and the other half is stand-up height. In the morning I am not allowed to sit as I work. I stand, move my legs around and constantly correct my posture. Then in the afternoon I am allowed to sit (move my PC down to the lower level) but only on a Swiss Ball. Every little bit helps.
ugh I totally forgot I sent this to you!

Glad it is working out and actually helping with swim/bike/running.

And yes we must commit to posture 100% of the time. This is a new habit that must be burned permanently into our bodies and we can't be half way about it for sure.

speaking about new habits - i've been really getting into the Janda approach to correcting muscle imbalances. also, i got certified in the FMS (Functional Movement Screen) and am working through its corrective exercises. Fascinating and very useful stuff to posture and other related imbalances between your left and right sides, which definitely affect swim/bike/running.

Last edited by CoachDavidShen : 11-16-2012 at 02:36 AM.
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  #18  
Old 11-16-2012
CoachDavidShen CoachDavidShen is offline
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Originally Posted by bx View Post
So, this stuff about retracting shoulder blades, is this new official TI teaching? And does it only apply to the Superman Glide drill, or do we swim like this too? It seems new to me, unless I missed something...?

And, do we retract scapulae first, and then reach forwards as far as possible, feeling a slight stretch in the lead arm / arms?
i think we're talking about two things here and they are of course related.

what Coach Ingrid is talking about is doing some specific things to correct your posture and the effects of slouching on your front and back muscles, which can restrict your ability to gain balance in the water. once you learn the techniques to correct outside of the water, then you can apply some of them as she describes to maintain your ability to keep good posture while swimming. retracting the scapula has this positive effect on posture but doesn't necessarily you mean you can gain full extension on your arms by extending the axilla - after all you're pulling the arm back right?

But what she is saying is that you have to address some things first. once you have practiced enough of the posture correcting movements, then other things happen so that you don't necessarily need those correcting movements any more to maintain good spinal alignment. these are things like lengthening shortened pec/shoulder muscles, and strengthening/activating/unlengthening your back muscles. once this happens, then you won't need to do some of these movements while swimming since your body can maintain good posture without them.

but until then, you can try the posture correcting movements even while swimming and you may discover, as Coach Ingrid has, that you have better balance in the water. as time progresses and your body adjusts to maintaining good posture easier and more automatically, then you can add back other things like stretching the arm to its fullest by opening up the axilla, which does mean that your scapula isn't retracting any more.

for those of you that have no posture problems, then you don't have to do anything different; keep opening up that axilla for the reasons we like doing so!

thus, TI still talks about opening up the axilla - it has not changed. but we, as personal trainers, sometimes need to address more fundamental problems first in your body before you can do other things that optimize swimming.
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  #19  
Old 11-16-2012
bx bx is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachDavidShen View Post
i think we're talking about two things here and they are of course related.

what Coach Ingrid is talking about is doing some specific things to correct your posture and the effects of slouching on your front and back muscles, which can restrict your ability to gain balance in the water. once you learn the techniques to correct outside of the water, then you can apply some of them as she describes to maintain your ability to keep good posture while swimming. retracting the scapula has this positive effect on posture but doesn't necessarily you mean you can gain full extension on your arms by extending the axilla - after all you're pulling the arm back right?

But what she is saying is that you have to address some things first. once you have practiced enough of the posture correcting movements, then other things happen so that you don't necessarily need those correcting movements any more to maintain good spinal alignment. these are things like lengthening shortened pec/shoulder muscles, and strengthening/activating/unlengthening your back muscles. once this happens, then you won't need to do some of these movements while swimming since your body can maintain good posture without them.

but until then, you can try the posture correcting movements even while swimming and you may discover, as Coach Ingrid has, that you have better balance in the water. as time progresses and your body adjusts to maintaining good posture easier and more automatically, then you can add back other things like stretching the arm to its fullest by opening up the axilla, which does mean that your scapula isn't retracting any more.

for those of you that have no posture problems, then you don't have to do anything different; keep opening up that axilla for the reasons we like doing so!

thus, TI still talks about opening up the axilla - it has not changed. but we, as personal trainers, sometimes need to address more fundamental problems first in your body before you can do other things that optimize swimming.
Thanks very much for this David.

I am clear now. Essentially this is about combining swimming with posture correction for those that need it. It is not an evolution of TI technique, phew!

As it happens, I've been working on my posture for several months. Hopefully after a year it will be improved!

cheers
Ant
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  #20  
Old 11-16-2012
russellw russellw is offline
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Hi all,

There is definitely something in this !! Again today I felt more balanced in the water, drills felt exceptionally relaxed.

I constantly done 18 spl, turn, and 19 spl on the way back, with the TT at 1.25

Not achieved this constantly before, especially with the feeling of less drag. Usually after the turn my propulsion seems not existent, but today not the case, flowed pretty well. If I can "forget" about balance, I can concentrate on other aspects of ti.

This posture thread had been a revelation in only a few swim sessions, I feel I am walking and sitting with chest wide and tummy in.

Can't wait for next weeks swims !!

Russ
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