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Old 04-15-2009
chaceakers chaceakers is offline
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chaceakers
Default Great stroke length poor speed

I recently decided to take up swimming in place or running. So I strapped on some goggles and hit the pool. Typically I would hit 50 strokes per 50 meters in about 60 seconds. After a couple of 50 yard repeats my heart was running around 200BPM and I couldn't breath well in the water. I thought there has to be a better way.

A bit of googling and I found TI. I bought the book, which I found out later is a version or two behind but I trust the concepts stay the same throughout the books. Literally overnight I cut 20 strokes out of my swim and I could easily breath in the water. My times had fallen off to about 90 seconds per 50 meters. To me that was reasonable considering how much more efficient I had just become.

I have continued to read through the book and drill. At this point I can hit 22 stokes per 50 meters on occasion but I can consistently hit 28 for 50 meter repeats. My time has dropped back to about 60 seconds per 50 meters at the 28 strokes. I am conscious of how far I glide off the wall so I feel like the stroke count is valid.

Here is where I am having some issues. Adding speed back to my stroke seems to cost too much. For example to cut my time to 50 seconds instead of 60 I have to add four strokes. Does this seem to be a reasonable cost in terms or strokes to gain 10 seconds on time?

Thanks
Chace
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Old 04-15-2009
daveblt daveblt is offline
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[quote=chaceakers;2826]I recently decided to take up swimming in place or running. So I strapped on some goggles and hit the pool. Typically I would hit 50 strokes per 50 meters in about 60 seconds. After a couple of 50 yard repeats my heart was running around 200BPM and I couldn't breath well in the water. I thought there has to be a better way.
A bit of googling and I found TI. I bought the book, which I found out later is a version or two behind but I trust the concepts stay the same throughout the books. Literally overnight I cut 20 strokes out of my swim and I could easily breath in the water. My times had fallen off to about 90 seconds per 50 meters. To me that was reasonable considering how much more efficient I had just become.
I have continued to read through the book and drill. At this point I can hit 22 stokes per 50 meters on occasion but I can consistently hit 28 for 50 meter repeats. My time has dropped back to about 60 seconds per 50 meters at the 28 strokes. I am conscious of how far I glide off the wall so I feel like the stroke count is valid.
Here is where I am having some issues. Adding speed back to my stroke seems to cost too much. For example to cut my time to 50 seconds instead of 60 I have to add four strokes. Does this seem to be a reasonable cost in terms or strokes to gain 10 seconds on time?]



So if I'm reading this correctly you went from 50 strokes at 50 meters for 60 secs., to 28 strokes ( sometimes 22) at 50 meters for 60 secs ?? This is definitely great progress !
And now you have to add just 4 strokes per 50m to gain 10 secs. which would give you about 32 strokes for 50m at 50 secs. at top speed , considering that you started with 50 strokes ? Who would argue or feel bad about progress like this ! keep up the good work !


Dave

Last edited by daveblt : 04-15-2009 at 05:12 PM.
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  #3  
Old 04-15-2009
chaceakers chaceakers is offline
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Dave,

I appreciate the reply. I probably wasn't very clear in my initial post. I am certainly not feeling bad about my progress. Terry talks about being very stingy about giving up strokes for speed. So with that in mind I am trying to gauge if four strokes for 10 seconds is a good trade.

Truth be told, I don't know what a good fifty time would be with the exception of Olympic times, which I can hardly compare my time to :)
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Old 04-15-2009
FrankJ FrankJ is offline
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Hello,

It sounds like great progress! I've started with TI in Sept 2008, and went from struggling and being out of breath with about 30 strokes/25 meters to an average of 20 strokes, with 18 strokes/25 meters on a very good day, and some resemblance of streamlining :-). It's not as remarkable a progress as that form you or other posters on this forum, but I'm still happy with it. I figure that with all the years of work and analysis that it took for people like Terry to get to 12 SPL, I should not expect to get there in a few months. Also I get the feeling that my body and my muscle memory would have trouble adapting properly in such short time. I guess it is a very personal journey, and one were one should not expect discounts.

F.
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Old 04-15-2009
daveblt daveblt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chaceakers View Post
ade

Truth be told, I don't know what a good fifty time would be with the exception of Olympic times, which I can hardly compare my time to :)


An olympic time would be somewhere around 22secs. for men .


Dave

Last edited by daveblt : 04-15-2009 at 06:16 PM.
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Old 04-15-2009
daveblt daveblt is offline
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[quote=chaceakers;2836]Dave,

. [ So with that in mind I am trying to gauge if four strokes for 10 seconds is a good trade. ]


10 secs. for 50m? I would definitely say, yes and also since the new actual stroke count is not that high. Maybe try just adding 2 strokes to 50 m and see what happens.

Dave
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Old 04-15-2009
chaceakers chaceakers is offline
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Dave thanks again for the reply. That is info I am looking for at this piont. I was acutally thinking I would take it up to 36 and see if I can break fourty seconds going top speed.

If I hit that, then I would drop to maybe 30 strokes and continue to refine my technique trying to reach 30 strokes in 40 seconds and then adding lengths until I can do that for a mile.

I know this is a very lofty goal but I need a target. I will set plenty of intermidiate goals between now and then.

Thanks for all of your help
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  #8  
Old 04-16-2009
dwdvagamundo dwdvagamundo is offline
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Default Good plan

I presume that you feel that you've wrung all the speed you can out of your present stroke length, so going a couple strokes per length higher is a pretty good plan.

For me, however, there is a world of difference between going from 60 to 50 secs per 50 meters to 40. It's a whole lot harder.

Have you tried "stroke golf?" That is, doing a set of 50s and varying the number of strokes and rate of turnover to try to get the optimum combination of stroke length and speed? add time to stroke count for your score.
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  #9  
Old 04-17-2009
terry terry is offline
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10 seconds for 4 strokes is a very good trade. More important, how do you feel at the end of a 50-second lap. Could you repeat it with, say 3 breaths rest. Could you hold that combo for 100m before long?
The point of taking less strokes isn't to take less strokes, but to swim more efficiently. That means less work, less muscle activation, the nervous system learning to perform a particular task with the lowest energy cost.

Your process up to this point has been very sound. To take your pursuit of pace-improvement to the next level, I suggest you begin using a Tempo Trainer in your practice I've posted several blogs on that topic.
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  #10  
Old 04-17-2009
chaceakers chaceakers is offline
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Terry thanks for taking the time to weigh in on this. In the process of getting most out of my strokes today I found that if I switch my hands a little earlier it naturally creates the chest rotation that I have been so mindful of recently. It feels like overhand entering the water is acutally throwing me forward while my under hand is pull me along.

I am sure I am not explaining the well but the end result is less drag and greater propulsion forward. I settled in on 28 strokes for 44 seconds. 50 meter repeats at 30 to 45 seconds rest for about thirty minutes.

I will look at the tempo trainer you listed below. I can't say enough about this system

Thanks again
Chace
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