Total Immersion Forums  

Go Back   Total Immersion Forums > Freestyle
FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-03-2012
galax galax is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 24
galax
Default Save strokes and effort

Hello everybody.
In last months, my TI practice give me little but consistent/continuos improvements.
Now I've reduced the strokes for lenght: I can swim freestyle for 2 or 3 lengths using 16 strokes.
Swimming for 3 lenghts using 48 strokes bring me a considerable effort at the end. On the other hand , when I swim easy I usually spend 17/18 strokes per lenght.
The reason that push me to maximize SPL is simple:
the less stroke I use, the less tired I should be at the end of the stint.
Instaed, striving to minimize stroke cause a considerable effort.

What's wrong in my reasoning?
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-03-2012
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 1,680
andyinnorway
Default

What you are experiencing is natural.

If you were to throw a cricket or tennis ball as far as you could this would be more tiring than throwing it 90% as far as you could throw it.

You train to minimise your SPL even though it is tiring as over time this will help you reduce your easy SPL and therefore increase speed for the same effort

Focusing on minimum SPL teaches you better balance streamline and stroke mechanics but you wouldn't swim a race or long distance at your very lowest SPL.

Hope that provide some clarification.


ps you would probably want to train to hold SPL for sets up to 200m but that takes time too, and by then you will probably a have a new lower minimum.

happy laps.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-03-2012
galax galax is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 24
galax
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by andyinnorway View Post
What you are experiencing is natural.

If you were to throw a cricket or tennis ball as far as you could this would be more tiring than throwing it 90% as far as you could throw it.

happy laps.
Yes, It's true. We can't raise the bar without effort!
The question arose in my mind yesterday after 3 lenghts in 48 strokes:
"Wow how can I sustain this for 1K ?, I had a moment of discouragement..."
I felt not only physical but a considerable mental effort,
I required an high level of concentration on various focal points.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-03-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
Coach
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,453
CoachSuzanne
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by galax View Post
Yes, It's true. We can't raise the bar without effort!
The question arose in my mind yesterday after 3 lenghts in 48 strokes:
"Wow how can I sustain this for 1K ?, I had a moment of discouragement..."
I felt not only physical but a considerable mental effort,
I required an high level of concentration on various focal points.
How tall are you? You don't want minimum strokes, you want optimum strokes.

I can pedal a bike up a steep hill in my smallest gear (lowest revolutoin, largest rollout distance) and that's the equivalent of stroking wiht my absolute lowest stroke count (11)...but I wouldn't do either one for a great length of time.

Let yourself add a stroke...see hwo long you can swim 17 SPL. Do a little bit at 16 SPL (maybe 4 x 25, 3 x 50, 2 x 75, 3 x 50, 4 x 25) Then do 100, 150, 200, etc at 17 SPL and see how long you can sustain it. Then repeat the 16 SPL set. Over time you will tune in to count that is best for you. At 16-18 you are already ina very good range unless you are extremely tall.
__________________
Suzanne Atkinson, MD
Level 3 USAT Coach
USA Paralympic Triathlon Coach
Coach of 5 time USA Triathlon Triathlete of the Year, Kirsten Sass
Steel City Endurance, LTD
Fresh Freestyle

Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-03-2012
martinswe martinswe is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1
martinswe
Default

Hi,

I am new here. And not a very good swimmer, but trying to improve...

To me it is obvious that when trying to swim in your low SPL range (or even below your "natural" range) it will take more effort as you will have a tendency to put more "umpfh" (or force) into each stroke in order to go further.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-03-2012
nicka nicka is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 80
nicka
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by martinswe View Post
Hi,

I am new here. And not a very good swimmer, but trying to improve...

To me it is obvious that when trying to swim in your low SPL range (or even below your "natural" range) it will take more effort as you will have a tendency to put more "umpfh" (or force) into each stroke in order to go further.
One of the best things i read here on the forum was a comment from Terry saying do not put more force into your stroke to improve, try gliding better and with this comment i took to the pool last week i took 1 minute of my 20 lap swim.
Hope that helps.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-04-2012
galax galax is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 24
galax
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
How tall are you? You don't want minimum strokes, you want optimum strokes.
I'm 5'10" and the pool is 25meters long.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-04-2012
ashby ashby is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 64
ashby
Default

Definitely don't minimise strokes, I'm quicker and it's easier swimming 22 strokes per length than 19. Less strokes isn't efficient very often, it's something i'm quite frustrated with TI for promoting as a rule.
__________________
Ashby: Defending mediocrity is hard work!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-05-2012
terry terry is offline
Head Coach
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 2,305
terry has disabled reputation
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by galax View Post
I'm 5'10" and the pool is 25meters long.
Galax A 25m SPL of 16 at your height is a bit too ambitious. You should give yourself a bit more freedom. As Suzanne made clear -- and Ashby fails to understand -- the TI goal is not to minimize stroke count. It's to optimize -- to find the most economical and sustainable SPL for both the pace and distance you wish to swim.
Informed TI swimmers typically work across a range of about 4 SPL for freestyle in a 25y/m pool. Our goals are to
1) be equally smooth at the top and bottom of our range
2) have great facility in calibrating our count - i.e. decide to swim a particular SPL and nail it with little or no end-of-lap adjustments.
3) have equal mastery at adjusting the count - to be able to swim 15-16-17 on subsequent lengths . . . or 17-16-15.
4) To be able to adjust both length and rate strategically to maintain or improve pace in response to fatigue or a racing situation.

For a great example of a quintessential TI SPL-Mastery practice see Coach Todd's example in Post #3 of this thread.
__________________
Terry Laughlin
Head Coach & Chief Executive Optimist

May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-10-2012
galax galax is offline
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 24
galax
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachSuzanne View Post
Let yourself add a stroke...see hwo long you can swim 17 SPL. Do a little bit at 16 SPL (maybe 4 x 25, 3 x 50, 2 x 75, 3 x 50, 4 x 25) Then do 100, 150, 200, etc at 17 SPL and see how long you can sustain it. Then repeat the 16 SPL set. .
I followed your advice,yesterday I devoted the main part of my practice in trying to swim "easy" adding one or two strokes per length.
I swum many laps using 17 strokes.
But when the distance is longer than 200m , my swim was not really "easy".
I realize that "stroke saving" shouldn't be achieved with a stronger pull phase ( like in cycling : using the smallest rear gear..)
Generally, when I swim at slow frequences, my instinct force me to dedicate more attention to pushing phase.
What are , in your opinion, the better thoughts or focal points to avoid this ?
Many thanks in advance
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are Off
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 03:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin®
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.