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  #1  
Old 12-08-2011
kilgoretrout kilgoretrout is offline
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kilgoretrout
Default Hips

Watching videos and also using my observations while swimming, I think I have figured out the hip move. I can't do it, yet, but at least I feel somewhat confident I know when to move the hips to drive the hand. But, I really want someone who knows TI to tell me if I am right or wrong.

So here is what I previously thought when Terry said, "high hip drives spearing hand". I figured that I rotated my hips when my hand was just getting out of the water, maybe near my head, so that my hip would drive my hand and arm out in front of me and into the water.

But now, I think what it means is that I actually wait until my spearing arm and hand are pretty much stretched ahead of me, already submerged, and then I rotate my hips to drive my hand even farther forward, sort of punching a hole to swim through.

Before, I think the power of my hip rotation rotation was wasted as I used it to break the surface of the water. Sort of like shooting a bullet at the water. The bullet dies due to using up all the energy to break the surface. But the new way, the way I see it now, a relaxed hand and arm easily breaks through the surface, and then the power from my hips is not wasted and used for forward propulsion.
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Old 12-08-2011
andyinnorway andyinnorway is offline
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Your new thinking is correct, the hips drive the propulsive stage of the stroke cycle.
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  #3  
Old 01-01-2012
Zanna Zanna is offline
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Default Confused

Quote:
But now, I think what it means is that I actually wait until my spearing arm and hand are pretty much stretched ahead of me, already submerged, and then I rotate my hips to drive my hand even farther forward, sort of punching a hole to swim through.
If this is correct, then I am totally confused.
Isn't hip drive part of the rotation? And isn't the core supposed to rotate together? So how can you get your spearing arm (arm coming from the high shoulder) submerged and stretched out in front without the rotation and hip drive? Seems like adding a hip drive after the arm was submerged and stretched could only be done with corkscrew motion of first rotating the shoulders and then adding the hips later.
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  #4  
Old 01-01-2012
CoachSuzanne CoachSuzanne is offline
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Nope...what you describe implies that the upper body & shoulders have already rotated which allowed you to get the arm there in the first place. Then the hips rotating to go a little further with the arm. This suggests a disconnect in the core.

Swimming is much like golfing, baseball & tennis except that in those sports, the "unwinding" of the body is necessary to create high speeds a the head of the club, sweet spot of the bat or strings of the tennis racket to impart taht speed to the object of striking.

What is similar is that hte movement starts with the core...even the feet if you want to include the kick as the initiating moment, but hte hips & the shoulders rotate together. this allows you to coordinate all the core movement at once in order to spear.


if you read Terry's last post in the "swimsmooth" thread, he makes several notes about propulsive elements of TI...this is where hte unified core movement takes the streamlining of TI and turns it into propulsion.

While you are breaking through the surfcae with your spearing hand...the lead hand has been patiently cultivating a grip on the still water behind the palm and forearm. The core rotatin allows this arm a firm anchor which propels you forward AS YOU SPEAR.

Hope that helps.
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  #5  
Old 01-01-2012
ALMD ALMD is offline
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From my reading about TI and listening to my coach and watching the TI videos, once we put our arms and hand in the over switch, and we are in the skating position ready to make the stroke, if we feel our lats muscles they are tensed ( sorta liked a cocked gun or an stretched bow before it releases the arrow ), and rotating the hips will release this tension in the lats muscles which are connected to the arms, so it fires transferring the arm and hands forward.

If your arm and hand are already way forward, you are not going to get much forward propulsion or additional propulsion from rotating your hips, and then it defeats the purpose of minimizing the work of your muscles of arms and shoulders and not depending on your hip and core muscles to elicit the forward propulsion and then you end up spending more energy depending on your shoulders rather than the big muscles of your hips and core ( which is what TI all about )

The hip rotation should be connected to initiating forward arm movement . I am not a TI expert, but I can feel the difference, when the hip rotates pushing my arm forward, it does make lot of almost relaxed easy forward movement
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  #6  
Old 01-01-2012
Butiki Butiki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kilgoretrout View Post
But now, I think what it means is that I actually wait until my spearing arm and hand are pretty much stretched ahead of me, already submerged, and then I rotate my hips to drive my hand even farther forward, sort of punching a hole to swim through.
As others have said, this timing between spearing hand and hip rotation is out of sync, or more accurately, backwards. In fact, it goes against what Terry, as you said, said that "the hip drives the spearing hand".

All the TI switch drills, when done correctly, should be able to imprint the proper timing. When your recovering arm has just passed your goggles/ears/head, and your hand has dipped into the water ("mail slot"), that's when you activate your core muscles and drive the high hip downwards. As you do so, the rest of your arm follows the hand into the water in a spearing action towards your target.

There was a time when I started the switch when my recovering hand was still above the water. I still get the propulsion from the hip rotation, but in doing so I created a lot of bubbles and disturbance as my hand "speared" from high in the air into water downwards. It was perplexing at first until I saw more videos of TI swimmers and realized what it was I was doing wrong. Now I wait until my hand has entered the water before initiating the switch and hip drive. With the hand just submerged a bit, there is a lot less bubbles during the spear and the water above me is quieter.
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