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Old 07-05-2012
borate borate is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 533
Default More on paddles vs. propellers
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Old 07-05-2012
shanex shanex is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 4

One of the world's fastest freestylers appears to be a sculler:
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Old 07-06-2012
terry terry is offline
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The title of this NY Times blog "Delineating the Perfect Swim Stroke" gives me heartburn. Only someone who has no idea of the elusiveness and complexity of 'perfection' in swimming technique - by any human - could write such a thing.

Then there's this from Ms Reynolds's article: >> "The physics of swimming are simple enough. To move through the water, you must generate thrust. "

Actually, as we know, the physics of swimming is highly complex. To move through the water you must generate propulsive forces in excess of the water's resistive forces.

I'm planning to write to Dr Mittal asking if he doesn't think a far more consequential question--given that he has studied fish swimming--and one that human swimming research has mostly ignored, is how to reduce drag.

And as TI Coach, and Overachiever's Diary author, Lou Tharp wrote me: "Doc Counsilman has to be the most quoted swimming dead guy in the world. His theory has been discredited, but he is still the quoted expert every time there is a swimming technique story."

No technique should ever be studied without consideration of its power and energetic costs. Either paddle or propellor it's all the same. Far more costly--and less effective--than streamlining.
Terry Laughlin
Head Coach & Chief Executive Optimist

May your laps be as happy as mine.

My TI Story
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Old 07-06-2012
haschu33 haschu33 is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Hamburg, Germany
Posts: 787

Originally Posted by shanex View Post
One of the world's fastest freestylers appears to be a sculler:...
This clip is from a multi-part TV-show on Michael Phelps out of the serie 'In the body of the topathletes' of the French-German TV-channel Arte, an ad-free culture channel. The entire stuff can be found on YouTube. They used highspeed slow-motion cameras and had always one camera on top of the water and one under water which moved synchronized which gave these amazing pictures from the side where you can see above and under water simultanously.
Anyway, there was a part which dealt with the pull, and this clip is from that part. The entire part showed that Phelps (at that time) was about to change from a S-shape pull to a I-shaped pull, his left arm still following the S-shape (demonstrated by that orange line in the clip), but the point is that he changed to a straight pull.
So, it's the other way round. Details without context can be quite misleading (not your fault, shanex).

For the diehearts, here are the complete clips from YouTube, German comments (sorry), but amazing pictures. That short clip above is from the beginning of part 5 (sorry, that very clip is from end of part 4, in part 5 the story about the pull is continued):

Part 1 Part 2 Part 3 Part 4 Part 5

Last edited by haschu33 : 07-06-2012 at 09:15 AM.
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Old 07-06-2012
Donal F Donal F is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 38
Donal F

In my last few swims I've been trying to address my right side sculling, a deeply-ingrained habit from 38 years of breathing to the right, then 15 more years of breathing to the right on every other length. I think the scull was an adaptation to regain balance after over-rotating to breathe, then rotating quickly back to stroke. Even though I stopped over-rotating 15 years ago, the lower arm still has a strong urge to scull close in to the body. I noticed it after watching the Mittal video and comparing my two arm pulls while breathing bilaterally.

At first I tried to tell myself, "Don't scull," before each right arm stroke. That didn't accomplish much. Then I tried a positive goal, "Pull deep," which worked much better. There's still an involuntary hand flick at the deepest point, but I think that will eventually go away.
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Old 07-06-2012
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 1,353

Hi Donal,

Although I have not seen your video, I'm pretty sure the source of your involuntary skulling is coming from your kick, not from wht's going on up front. Namely you are probably kicking from the quads causing too much bend in the knee. This bend, somtimes hits 90 degs with many swimmers causing a slight imbalance and sink - thus triggering the auto-skulling up front to make up for losing your balance. Think of kicking (flicking) from the hamstrings engaging your rump - this will straighten knee automagically and reduce or eliminate the auto-skulling. Give it a try and let us know who it goes.
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Old 07-07-2012
Donal F Donal F is offline
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 38
Donal F

In high school I may have bent my knees doing the two-beat crossover, but for years after that i didn't kick at all. Now I have a very light two-beat TI diagonal kick and keep a very straight leg.
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