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  #51  
Old 02-26-2012
jtravis jtravis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachShinjiT View Post
In many cases, people can create the bow wave. There are some reasons why they can not utilize it.
1) The timing: Too soon or too late to get the maximum height
2) Disturbed: uneven acceleration, tilted head position and tilted spearing
3) The gap between the surface and mouth: Too much rotation

Today we had a workshop (in US) dedicated to breathing. Everybody could create very clean bow waves and they could swim faster with using right breathing technique.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butiki View Post
Here's another shot of a swimmer's bow wave.

Split-faced bow wave

Some hints: when you turn to breathe and you see the ceiling, your head is turned way up and hence, over-rotated, so you may not see the bow wave. Or if you don't face the ceiling and still not see the bow wave, you may be lifting your head.

From a swimmer's point of view, the bow wave looks like water rushing fast past your face, and above your head, just within your peripheral vision, you'll also see the top of the wave. The first few times you see it, especially if one of your goggles is underwater, it's really uncanny how there's air to breath with all that water rushing past. I'm better with my right breathing than my left and see it more times on that side.
Thanks, both of you! I will reread this right before my next swim, and try to look for my bow wave.
In the photo Butiki posted, I see the wave and the air pocket it creates. But it seems to me the swimmer has lifted/tilted his head, not just turned it. Do you agree? Should his head position be more horizontal?
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  #52  
Old 02-27-2012
Butiki Butiki is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtravis View Post
Thanks, both of you! I will reread this right before my next swim, and try to look for my bow wave.
In the photo Butiki posted, I see the wave and the air pocket it creates. But it seems to me the swimmer has lifted/tilted his head, not just turned it. Do you agree? Should his head position be more horizontal?
You're welcome. By the way, the purpose of the photo is to show a bow wave. This swimmer is most likely not a classic TI swimmer, so his hips seem to sit lower. However his turned head is still neutral relative to his spine, so in this regard, he was not lifting his head. It's just that his entire upper body is not streamlined and horizontal.
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  #53  
Old 02-27-2012
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CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Default Perfect Bow wave?

if this is a perfect bow wave, this is something to avoid. Head / spine not in alignment, neck bent at about 30 degs, both goggles in air. A lot of calories used to create the bow wave in front. This is really wave drag caused by poor form, or form drag. Lead hand high, getting ready to lift elbow, not swing wide on recovery, and windmill. Traditional stroke, no streamline, bent spine - nothing characteristic of TI. It's takes me a several sessions with students to disengage this spine bend, not that easy to correct once imprinted.
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  #54  
Old 02-27-2012
Butiki Butiki is offline
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Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
if this is a perfect bow wave, this is something to avoid. Head / spine not in alignment, neck bent at about 30 degs, both goggles in air. A lot of calories used to create the bow wave in front. This is really wave drag caused by poor form, or form drag. Lead hand high, getting ready to lift elbow, not swing wide on recovery, and windmill. Traditional stroke, no streamline, bent spine - nothing characteristic of TI. It's takes me a several sessions with students to disengage this spine bend, not that easy to correct once imprinted.
OH man, like I said, do not look at the swimmer, that wasn't the purpose. He's definitely not TI, probably not even a good swimmer. Jtravis was wondering what a bow wave looks like, and I google'd to help. Guess I shouldn't have...

Anyway, here's a classic TI bow wave.

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  #55  
Old 02-27-2012
tab tab is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtravis View Post
Coach Shinji, thanks so much for posting the still shot of your bow wave. This is a concept I have been trying to grasp. I try the exercise where I "nod" and look for the bow wave, but I can't find it. I'm not sure if that's because it doesn't exist or because I don't know what I am looking for. Now I know what to look for!
Those wave patterns are tricky, be careful of what or why you observe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzRdZGYNvA&feature=fvst
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  #56  
Old 02-27-2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Butiki View Post
OH man, like I said, do not look at the swimmer, that wasn't the purpose. He's definitely not TI, probably not even a good swimmer. Jtravis was wondering what a bow wave looks like, and I google'd to help. Guess I shouldn't have...

Anyway, here's a classic TI bow wave.

Got it, thanks - much better. I think there has been too much emphasis on "bow wave", it's size/depth, etc. The emphasis should be on characterizing head/spine alignment, holding balance/streamline through recovery on breathing (and non breathing) strokes; head/spine alignment should remain consistent whether you're breathing or not. It's really the "no wave" that is a consequence of good head/spine alignment built from excellent balance and streamline technique. I'm not sure whether or not "bow-wave" is in any of the TI docs/dvds, I don't recall any. In either case, I think getting hung up on what the "bow wave" is and how it's created only clutters and distracts from what's most important that TI teaches us.
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  #57  
Old 02-27-2012
tomoy tomoy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tab View Post
Those wave patterns are tricky, be careful of what or why you observe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEzRdZGYNvA&feature=fvst
That's awesome. I always learn something on this forum!
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  #58  
Old 02-28-2012
Zanna Zanna is offline
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It is quite wonderful what actually seeing a photo will do. Last night, after seeing the bow wave in these photos, I was able to decrease my rotation (I am sure I have been over rotating to breathe) and also made progress on my bilateral breathing. Without the photos, I did not understand what the bow wave was and so did not trust it to be there. The increased confidence in its existence made all the difference. So thanks to those of you who posted the photos!
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  #59  
Old 03-02-2012
Alex-SG Alex-SG is offline
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This bow wave photo is indeed inspiring...
However one needs to have a very good technique to do it. In my opinion a nice acceleration and minimum speed are required.

Is this achievable with a "less than good enough 2BK" ? ALEX
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  #60  
Old 03-02-2012
Richardsk Richardsk is offline
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As I understand it, no matter how slowly you move through the water you must create a bow wave if you are swimming on the surface. Obviously if you swim faster your bow wave will be bigger and it will be easier to breathe in the trough behind it. Head position may have an influence here, which perhaps explains why I can breathe so much easier on my good side than my not so good side. A slightly elevated head position seems to work for some, although this is not really according to the TI book. Both Terry and Shinji have very low head positions, and so I think do all good TI swimmers I have watched on youtube. Coordinating the body roll and the (slight) head turn is probably the key.
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