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  #11  
Old 04-18-2018
Tom65 Tom65 is offline
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Tom65
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A static problem, 10000 miles a year on a bike, I'd move on, sounds like you'd need both forearms out of the water to get flat from head to toe.

I'm betting you have no trouble getting flat when you're swimming.

The bouyancy shorts are great for getting swim fitness if you're struggling to do continuous swimming.


.

Last edited by Tom65 : 04-19-2018 at 02:48 AM.
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  #12  
Old 04-19-2018
swmcoach
 
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Default Balance

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachStuartMcDougal View Post
Hey swimcoach,

Although a lot has changed since late 90's, early 2000 - learning the skill of balance has always been priority. So I'm curious that it appears you are experiencing a severe imbalance for the first time. The majority of males have a very low profile in the water, hips drop fast. Your description is very common, but the good news is you are aware it's problem.

To help narrow down what is happening with your body and its imbalance - what exactly did you do to balance in position/movement-wise (not neoprene-wise) that failed?

Stu
I guess back then I just decided balance was not that important a piece of the puzzle so I just moved on. I don't remember a lot of drills then that were talked about in order to get/keep balanced. This time around I want to feel more comfortable in the water so it seems if the body is balanced and floating that would do it. As Terry said in one of his videos balance is comparable to being able to walk in a running race IE: being able to slow down and still not sink. To me without the feeling of floating/balance I struggled with the rest of the drills and just got through them without being able to digest what my body is feeling. I really want to get the time to feel anchoring the lead arm and holding onto the water, feel the forward propulsion during my switch(old days mantra- stop-stop-switch).

I first started with just extending my arms and legs from a tucked position to see if I could float somewhat horizontally. Pressed in chest and dropped head, having a hard time flexing my glutes and pulling up my legs. I then tried doing superman and was fine pushing off the wall while gliding, but when I lost momentum the legs would sag to a 45 degree angle or more. I bought a swim snorkel thinking it would give me more time to try different pressure points to find my center of balance but my head position would be so deep that water would pour into the breathing tube. So I used a heat gun and modified the snorkel into more of a freestyle build by bending the breathing tube back severely.
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  #13  
Old 04-19-2018
swmcoach
 
Posts: n/a
Default Moving thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by John@NewPaltz View Post
While I tend to agree, that the question whether or not to skip a "failed" drill is interesting and might justify a new thread, I definitely would like to encourage you to post your experiments and challenges in the "sinking legs" thread, so that we don't get diverging threads about the same topic. Otherwise we'll quickly end up typing the same responses twice or abandon one of threads although it has interesting details.
John
Thank you so much for your much needed input. I will post any new information on my progress in the "Sinking Legs" thread as requested. I have been following that thread but being a newbie to this forum I did not want to hop on someone else's discussion, sorry. After a 20 year hiatus from Terry's brilliant insight it seems when I revisited his site that it made so much more sense this time around, but was very disappointing when I tried to execute the basic principle of balance.
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  #14  
Old 04-19-2018
IngeA IngeA is offline
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Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Germany
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in the older courses the balance drills were (maybe there were others, but this is from the oldest course I have):
- balance on the back
- sweet spot
- lengthen your vessel (like skating in sweet spot)
- fish drill
- skating

If you were able to do these drills with easy kick, your balance was adequate.
I read it, as you had a bit of a pause in swimming. It is possible to master a 5km swim with quite sinking legs because of good fitness. Many triathlon athletes do, as I often can see while watching the other swimmers in the pool.

But on the other hand: Fitness also influences balance, because the general tension of your core muscles ist different. And also: It may be that your body and with that your aquatic signature changed over the years. So it may well be that you had good balance and now after several years without swimming you haven't any more.

What happens if you swim whole stroke? Do you struggle with balance then also?
In the superman glide or the skate without flutter kick there are not many people who can hold the legs up after loosing momentum. So it also may be, that your expectations in what your body should do are not realistic :o)

Best regards
Inge
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  #15  
Old 04-19-2018
CoachStuartMcDougal's Avatar
CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swmcoach View Post
I guess back then I just decided balance was not that important a piece of the puzzle so I just moved on. I don't remember a lot of drills then that were talked about in order to get/keep balanced. This time around I want to feel more comfortable in the water so it seems if the body is balanced and floating that would do it. As Terry said in one of his videos balance is comparable to being able to walk in a running race IE: being able to slow down and still not sink. To me without the feeling of floating/balance I struggled with the rest of the drills and just got through them without being able to digest what my body is feeling. I really want to get the time to feel anchoring the lead arm and holding onto the water, feel the forward propulsion during my switch(old days mantra- stop-stop-switch).

I first started with just extending my arms and legs from a tucked position to see if I could float somewhat horizontally. Pressed in chest and dropped head, having a hard time flexing my glutes and pulling up my legs. I then tried doing superman and was fine pushing off the wall while gliding, but when I lost momentum the legs would sag to a 45 degree angle or more. I bought a swim snorkel thinking it would give me more time to try different pressure points to find my center of balance but my head position would be so deep that water would pour into the breathing tube. So I used a heat gun and modified the snorkel into more of a freestyle build by bending the breathing tube back severely.
Hi Swimcoach,

Ahh ok, you're trying to float in a static position. Most males will not pop to the surface by shifting body position alone, including Terry and me. In clear water (pool or lake), I'm roughly 45 degs after shift position (arms in front of lungs, hand head, tone core), however without shifting position I'm almost vertical in water - a very low profile. Now when I'm at the 45 deg adjusted position, with the slightest of kick, really a "toe flick" down, I can easily pop the hips to the surface pivoting about my lungs or center of buoyancy. Alternatively in the salt water of the Pacific, my natural profile (no adjustment) is roughly 45 degs, with position and shift I easily float on the surface. We are much more buoyant in salt water.

Balance and core stability is priority #1 - and that is with any sport. Don't get discouraged if you don't float on the surface in a static, adjusted position while others do. That low profile is your signature and doesn't mean you cannot balance or flawed in some way. Don't reach for the pull-buoy to lift you. On some very low profile swimmers I have them wear neoprene pants so they have some lift without turning off the legs - then ween them off artificial buoyancy as soon as possible.

Stu

Last edited by CoachStuartMcDougal : 04-19-2018 at 06:42 PM.
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  #16  
Old 04-19-2018
John@NewPaltz
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom65 View Post
A static problem, 10000 miles a year on a bike, I'd move on, sounds like you'd need both forearms out of the water to get flat from head to toe.

I'm betting you have no trouble getting flat when you're swimming.

The bouyancy shorts are great for getting swim fitness if you're struggling to do continuous swimming.


.
Tom, are you referring to swmcoach's presumably muscular legs making it more difficult for him to achieve a horizontal position? I'll post my 2 cents in the "sinking issue" thread.
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  #17  
Old 04-20-2018
swmcoach
 
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Have now moved to "sinking legs" thread as requested
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