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  #1  
Old 04-18-2018
swmcoach
 
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Default Starting over

Around 97' or 98' I was doing triathlon, swim, bike, run. I have worked in the engineering field for the last 30 years or so. When I came across Terry's web site I was hooked. Since you can't argue physics in engineering or swimming I though his ideas where fabulous. I attended a couple of his weekend camps and took my daughter to a teen week long camp in Wisconsin. Since she was on the swim team in high school and my interest in doing triathlon I jumped at the chance to become the boys and girls assistant coach when it came open. A year later the head coach quite and they asked me to take his position. So I coached high school swimming for the next 6 years. My coaching was fully based on Total Immersion swimming techniques and I was a firm believer. Race forward 20 years and now looking into retirement my interest in swimming returned. I am an avid bicycle rider doing about 10,000 miles a year, but longed to be back in the pool. I came across Terry's web site again by chance and noticed he had passed(so very sorry). Long story short I began to study his newer methods and they seemed to make so much more sense to me(along with all the you tube videos of other swimmers thoughts). So off to the pool I went, thinking this time I will treat his methods as a process and not move on to the next drill until I conquer the previous. Well balance was the first step and I was suddenly stopped in my tracks when I found I could not get my legs to float no matter what I did and how much I read and watched the videos. Sorry for the long story but my question to the forum is should I just skip over this module since I can't find balance or use fins or neoprene jammers or pull buoy to gain this illusive balance? I have tried all the ideas in the previous post about legs sinking and there seems to be no way I can achieve any resemblance of balance. I even bought a swim snorkel from Total Immersion's site and I find myself pressing my head in so far to try and get balanced that I constantly get water into the breathing tube.

Signed, Very disheartened
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  #2  
Old 04-18-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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Hi
Have you got your arms out front when trying to float face down?
Arms by sides requires an active press down of the chest to maintain balance.

This is why front quadrant is so popular as the arms are required out front as balancing tools.

As you get better you can move to a more kayak / windmil stroke if desired but not until you have developed a sense of streamline balance and can make adjustments in stroke for hiccups / sighting / breathing etc etc

If your trying to do the torpedo balance drill with arms at sides as a beginner it is very difficult
i would go to spear skate / superman glide as a starting point.
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  #3  
Old 04-18-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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P.S you can try a pullbuoy to get the position and feeling and then ditch it and maintain the same position / feeling without it. But dont use a massive one as it will give too much floatation

i used Arena type C Pull buoy its enough floatation for a 90kg dude.
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  #4  
Old 04-18-2018
Mushroomfloat
 
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This one is the perfect size an bouyancy:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Arena-Unise.../dp/B004H8FP8S
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  #5  
Old 04-18-2018
swmcoach
 
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My arms are out in front of my head. I do have an Arena type pull buoy, not sure how many stripes but can modify it. Maybe I am focusing on the drill a little too hard and should just move onto the next set of sequences. It just really bothers me that I now understand what position my body needs to be in to make it relaxed swimming that I can't physically get there. I have ordered a pair of neoprene swim jammers to see if that helps me get over this hump. I have swum any where from 1/4 mile in sprint triathlons to 1.2 mile and even some 5km Lake Michigan swims(wetsuit aided) but I think I just pushed through with my fitness rather than what I am trying to accomplish which is what Terry professed. Thanks for you input, very appreciated.
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  #6  
Old 04-18-2018
IngeA IngeA is offline
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IngeA
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As you are not a novice in freestyle swimming, not even a novice in TI, i would not work through all the exercises like you wanted to.

TI has improved, but the general main targets, balancing and streamlining are the same. I would do both, the older exercises that you know and the newer ones. But after the exercises I would try to set my focal point in whole stroke on what you learned in the exercises.

I know that there are several opinions, and others may have other experiences, but I would not try to use a pull buoy or neoprene jammers to improve the balance of the body, unless you want to always swim with the neoprene jammers.
I learned freestyle in a normal swimming suit. Than I swam one year only with a short neoprene suit. It took me ages to find my balance with the neoprene suit and then again it took me ages to regain my balance when I started to swim without. Maybe that you get a feeling how correct balance feels, but it does not help to learn balance.

Best regards
Inge
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  #7  
Old 04-18-2018
WFEGb WFEGb is offline
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Hello swmcoach,

I'd advocate IngeA's hints totally. You're in TI even as coach and really didn't run into that Problem before?

Torpedo and Superman are also drills to find out how slow your legs will sink, when just holding them and your head aligned.

With your eyperience I think some tight looks into Terry's 2.o Mastery, especially around the 2BK might be helpful. A well tuned 2BK will help lifting your legs too... and sinking legs don't sink so much in a single stroke-cycle around 1.1s... But after all, as Inge said working on for-back-balance most times will be more helpful, when getting it with into whole stroke...

Best regards,
Werner
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  #8  
Old 04-18-2018
CoachStuartMcDougal's Avatar
CoachStuartMcDougal CoachStuartMcDougal is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swmcoach View Post
Long story short I began to study his newer methods and they seemed to make so much more sense to me(along with all the you tube videos of other swimmers thoughts). So off to the pool I went, thinking this time I will treat his methods as a process and not move on to the next drill until I conquer the previous. Well balance was the first step and I was suddenly stopped in my tracks when I found I could not get my legs to float no matter what I did and how much I read and watched the videos.
Hey swimcoach,

Although a lot has changed since late 90's, early 2000 - learning the skill of balance has always been priority. So I'm curious that it appears you are experiencing a severe imbalance for the first time. The majority of males have a very low profile in the water, hips drop fast. Your description is very common, but the good news is you are aware it's problem.

To help narrow down what is happening with your body and its imbalance - what exactly did you do to balance in position/movement-wise (not neoprene-wise) that failed?

Stu
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  #9  
Old 04-18-2018
John@NewPaltz
 
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While I tend to agree, that the question whether or not to skip a "failed" drill is interesting and might justify a new thread, I definitely would like to encourage you to post your experiments and challenges in the "sinking legs" thread, so that we don't get diverging threads about the same topic. Otherwise we'll quickly end up typing the same responses twice or abandon one of threads although it has interesting details.
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  #10  
Old 04-18-2018
John@NewPaltz
 
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Thank you very much for the "skip" question. While I'm trying to build up my "advisory" skills (I won't call it "coaching" skills, yet), it made me think a lot:
Sticking with 1-2 drills for days/weeks (and in your case even the very first drills!), just because you can't get your legs to float, might absolutely "kill" the desire to learn TI for a newcomer. Therefore, I can totally see the benefit of using a pull-buoy in order to create a new sensation and start improving on other skills, knowing that another piece of puzzle still needs to be mastered. Consciously using a "cheat" here an there for the sake of progress might be motivational.
What do the others think: Can you do good progress on e.g. rotational/streamlining/breathing/recovery skills while using a pull-buoy or other "helpers"?
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